h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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, but I would hate to propagate the feeling that people with mental illnesses are somehow 'neurodisabled'. I just don't think that's true.
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I completely agree Z, although I think we use terminologies differently. It was a bit of a dilemma for me to post in that thread because I knew that as soon I started talking about disability people would see that as somehow meaning something was wrong with Effers (it's interesting, because with physical disability it's much easier to use the term in an empowered way. I do like the term 'neurodiversity though). I certainly don't see disability (mental health or otherwise) as being a wrongness (quite the contrary in fact). In the end I decided to just use the language/concepts that were easiest and take the risk.

I liked what you said in that thread about the issues being around Effers being an artist. I agree with that too. What I was concerned about was that once the conflict ensued I saw people saying that the problem was Effers being rude and she needed to change her behaviour whereas I saw an escalation of something in that thread (lots of people being rude to various degrees, and lots of misunderstandings) that meant that a friend of mine had to increase her coping and self care skills markedly to even stay in the thread and then to just cope with her day. That, IMO, was avoidable if there had been more understanding of each other's realities, and I do think the community has a responsibility to increase its understanding of this. Do we think that the standard of behaviour should be what non-mentals determine? I don't. I think it should be inclusive of everyone.

The dilema of when to tell must be awful, (and to aid the getting wasted)...

I try and respond to where someone seems to be - rather than a diagnostic label, which kinda works most of the time.

Another

>>but on the other you have to deal with the equisite embarrasement of being viewed as some kind of cripple. I still haven't sorted out how to come to terms with that.

Which is one reason why I don't talk about my own disabilities on site. I'm fortunate in that the internet renders my particular ones largely invisible. But I know what you mean. In RL I face the similar dilemmas when people start looking at my behaviour and not understanding the context. Do I try and explain and have to go through all the hassle of educating someone only to find out they'd rather stick to their prejudices?

>>I try and respond to where someone seems to be - rather than a diagnostic label, which kinda works most of the time.


I think this is a really good approach. It does require a broad understanding about the range of the human condition though, doesn't it? Otherwise it's easy to just dismiss someone who is acting outside the so called norm as being rude or weird.

kea.

You did what was right to help a friend.. which was cool. And she thinks that you did right, which is also cool.

I totally agree that this was avoidable if there had been more understanding of each other's realities. I also agree that the standard of behaviour should be inclusive of everyone, including people who are sensitive because they are artists, (my brother, and both my parents come into that catagory), people who are having a bad day, and people who are feeling rotten because of a physical illness, or even a mental illness. If that was possible then people wouldn't have to declare that they had a mental illness, cos everyone would be behaving nicely anyway.

I can dream.

Another simi-post.


I think we're actually pretty much in agreement here..

One of the things that simply astounds me about the PR process is the lack of etiquette. When I've been involved in situations where a group of people are critiquing or offering suggestions about something you've made/done, if they've never met you before, the first thing they do is introduce themselves..then you can get down to the meat of the matter of the PR stuff.

If you're really trying your best to make something honest and truthful you really do need etiquette in that situation because the person is vulnerable. Even people you know in real life will start off with a warm smile and then give you honest feedback.

I know in many threads I'm not known for my etiquette. But in PR its essential.

I just think that whole PR thing is a total dog's breakfast.

Even if we have plans to change it in the new hootoo, I expect the same old stuff will happen. PR online with something like hootoo, ie not in a strictly defined structure like 'science' or say at an art school, is really a bit Emperors new clothes IMO. Go through the motions. And then some people will turn up who's only motive is to be destructive..no interest in actually helping the person in the process.

Yeah I simply can't handle it online. That's the honest truth.

Those are good points. I'll be thinking about that. I don't see why the etiquette in PR can't be reviewed as part of the moving process

I definitely think it should be... far too many people seem to think that because they're on the internet they are excused from having manners and PR is no exception.

I can't say I've ever specifically introduced myself in PR, but I have always endeavoured to be polite and make it known that my suggestions are just that rather than putting them across as, for want of a better term, commands.

Yes Mr. D you were polite, as were most people on that thread until things went wrong. Things were going so well that, if you remember, I asked if everyone's name involved in the process could be added to the entry as co-authors I was thinking. It very much felt to be a group process. It was a pleasure.

I accept it would be a bit silly for people to introduce themselves as one would in real life, but there is nothing wrong with a bit of a welcome to a newbie to PR, such we do to newbies on h2g2, hopefully..Especially as you've never had contact with them before eg Tufty and myself. I'd never even heard of him before.

I'd hope if I was an old hand on PR I'd go out of my way to explain how things work if there appeared to be misunderstanding on the newbies part, in a friendly way..as it *is* quite confusing if you've never been through it personally before, as opposed to dipping into it very occasionally as a reader. I'd do my best to make friendly contact before any sort of reviewing. I don't know exactly how you'd do it, but you get my drift hopefully. And it's not a question of spoon feeding or giving someone an easy ride. Quite the opposite. Once a friendly relationship is formed ie etiquette, you can be as honest as you like with the person.

And of course someone won't fully understand the whole process of scouts picking things, sub-editing, eds finally choosing if its acceptable, eds choosing who is to sub-edit etc.

New people coming to h2g2 will be even far more confused than me I'd have thought.

The place is now relatively moribund compared to the past. There has to be *reasons* for that. If I was a long standing regular I'd like to be staring that fact full in the face, and wonder why.

I realise I should probably post this on the general discussion threads about newtoo..but they do my head in at present, and I've lost confidence about that. So if any of this makes sense to people, feel free to add it to discussion if appropriate and you want to.

I know that you've unsubbed from the PR thread but the Eds have asked if they can post some suggestions of what would need to be changed before it was accepted.If you'd be ok with them posting.

They can post what they want, but I've no further interest in it, as I've made clear.

Effers, it'd be good if you made a decision about whether the entry can go in the EG or not. At the moment it's in PR. IMO it's likely it would get picked without too much work, and the subed could do that work (just my opinion). Can you give the ok for that at least? If not, you'll probably need at some point to remove the entry from PR.

In post 76 here I wrote,

'As far as I'm concerned the thing can go forward into the guide if picked and be sub-edited in any way seen fit by any sub editor.'

Because I've washed my hands of it in my mind if someone can be bothered they are welcome to do that.

Do I need to go to the actual PR thread and post that? I can understand the confusion..(and my god there's been plenty of all sorts..and chopping and changes of mind on my part, I admit..there were reasons for that which I don't want to re-hash though). I believe I said I was withdrawing it..but yes I'll post the above at that thread if its necessary.

I'm not pettily saying the Guide can't have it. Merely that I don't want to think about it or have anything more to do with it, so if someone else can be a*ed, yes.

Just tell me what to do for that.

It'd be good if you could say that in the PR thread They just need permission to carry on without you.