h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You realize that I have been job hunting for awhile. Well last week I interviewed at the Oregon lottery comission for an electronic technician position. Interview went well but nothing! When I called back they said there were too many better qualified applications and that there wasn't one thing they could point to that I did wrong (except maybe age discriination which they would never confess). This is the sixth time since the summer that I have had interviews where everything seems to have gone right yet no job, it is very frustrating.

Its not like I have failed to do everything necesary and there is nothing that I should change (judging by the responses I get) I have had a few interviews where there was obvious flaws and no questions need be asked about why I didn't get those jobs.

There are times when I think that I may not ever get a job of any kind much less in my career field, it is depressing. I am one of the most optimistic people I know yet it is hard to keep this up.

Hmmmm.... I can think of a handful of different reasons why I've seen people not get hired despite an excellent resume, application, etc., that are still things you probably wouldn't tell the applicant if they asked about why they weren't hired.

I've seen people not hired for things like:

* speech and language issues (either difficult to understand, or comes across as non-professional)

* social skills issues (not making eye contact, obviously awkward or anxious)

* doesn't seem to take the interview seriously (from either body language or comments made, especially jokes)

* hygiene or clothing (this can even include things like smelling of tobacco smoke, which wouldn't have been a big deal a decade or so ago)

* sad things which raised red flags (for a common example, criticized previous jobs, employers, or coworkers)

For none of those things would a recruiter or interviewer probably be honest and tell you why you didn't get the job. It's too much easier just to say "we had too many qualified candidates", and avoid awkwardness or a potential lawsuit! And these are often things that I think people tend not to know about themselves -- I had a friend point out to me once that I needed to work on making eye contact, and once I had to sit someone down and explain why she needed to wear less perfume to interviews.

The other thing you might wonder about are the people you're giving as references. I have some colleagues where I shudder to think of the poor people using them as a reference -- they *think* what they are saying is all positive, but it actually comes across quite differently. If you don't get a job because of a bad reference, the recruiter/HR person will virtually never tell you.

To be truthful, I've seen relatively little blatant age discrimination going on lately. I've seen older people not offered the job because they were expecting more money than the other candidates, but I wouldn't consider that age discrimination. I've also seen cases where it seemed pretty obvious from a person's resume that they wouldn't be satisfied with the job on offer, and so it was given to someone for whom the job would be a "step up" rather than a "step down". That might come closer, but really it's discrimination based on experience, not on age -- I've seen it happen to 20 and 30-somethings, as well.

The only things I've seen which I would truly consider age discrimination have been when someone younger has been hired because there were hopes to "groom" that person for a supervisory job years down the road, or because the supervisor for the position didn't feel comfortable managing people older than him or herself.

What I have seen a tremendous amount of is situations in which a job is advertised, and people interviewed, even though someone has already been selected for the position. I'm really not sure how to get around that, although I would think it might be happening more at public agencies than private companies. A public agency is usually legally required to recruit and interview for a position even if it is already "filled", private companies aren't.

Are the positions you're applying for union positions? I don't know whether this is actually an issue, but I have definitely heard stories of people not being able to get a union job because they made someone's list somwhere along the line.

Have you had any luck with temp or contract agencies? A lot of the people I know who were laid off from Boeing were able to find their way into new permanent jobs via a temp or contract position.

I know it's frustrating, though! I went through about 20 interviews last winter, and was anxious as hell the entire time. I gained considerable weight going through all that, and now I'm trying to get rid of it all!

I really do hope things look up for you soon, though!

Thank you for your considerate reply.

Many of the interviews I've had were from agency leads, but not all of them. The latest was at the Oregon lottery comission and that was a state employment situation.

1)references: because my whole resume history is filled with agency positions with one exception, the only references I could give were from the agencies and I've learned over the years that legal issues being what they are most companies will only give dates of employment, rarely give more than that. The one local reference is still an enthusiastic supporter for me but few of my prospective employers even ask.

2)Hygiene: I do have a full well trimmed beard and I am overweight could these be hinderances? (can't change my weight soon but I can shave real fast if you think that will have any effect

3)Some interview have actually asked me about other jobs and why I didn't like them or what was the worst thing about them (At Intel no less!)

4)I understand that doing mock interviews is a way of discovering hidden flaws but somehow I have never been able to take them seriously and therefore gained nothing from them. I learned in the '80s about eye contact and that certainly is not the issue.

5) I hate to think that I'm being turned down because they think I wouldn't be enthusiatic about the jobs I interview for. I carefully screen them and never apply for ones I wouldn't actually perform for them. However with nearly thirty years of work already it is possible they might feel intimidated. I dont have a clue how to deal with that prospect. How can I convey to them that it is not an issue for me?

6) There has been at least one of these positions where the person hired was from the company but only one.

7)Most of the interviews where I get these mysterious results seem to be the ones where I feel great about it, like I'm sure it was mine. I feel a good relationship with the interviewer, I like the company and know plenty about it and nothing is said during the interview that gives me a clue I'm not making it(obviously I am missing something but I seem to be blind to those messages)I know these might seem like a series of excuses, but I am at my wit's end now.

Lastly, I really want to find some supervisory position and every one seems to need a bachelors degree or they only hire from within or only with experience. I dont fit into their category's for supervisor though. Let's face it my greatest years of working on the bench are behind me, but I can be much more valuable to a company helping others with my experience.(I seem to be locked out of this level of employment right now.)

I'll keep plugging along though never give up etc...
Thanks for your advice add anything else you may want me to hear I"m all ears.

Adieu

Hi there!

Yes, sadly, being overweight can seriously count against you during interviews. I'm in that category myself, so I know how difficult that is to change quickly. It's especially an issue if the job requires any level of exertion or endurance, however minimal. I'd often try to offset this a tad by mentioning at some point that I play tennis, take little girl scouts hiking, etc.

I'd probably consider shaving -- most men look a little younger when they are clean-shaven, and I think being clean-shaven can especially count in your favor if the person interviewing you is a woman or younger.

Yes, interviews will ask you about your prior jobs, and even specifically what you didn't like, but they are watching very closely during those questions for red flags. You're expected to give an answer that is something like, "I really enjoyed working there, but I wish there had been more.... room for advancement / opportunities for continuing education / more interaction with the public." Whatever you fill in that blank, it should be something that the company you're interviewing at will offer you. Too often, people mistakenly answer these questions in ways that make it sound like they had personality conflicts with their coworkers or boss, or problems with authority or criticism. Questions like that are just a minefield waiting to happen. Somewhat like "what is your greatest fault", but trickier.

If you think there's any possibility they might feel you are overqualified for the job, make sure you take every opportunity to point out specific details about the job that would be a great experience for you -- maybe the job has a great continuing ed program, or would give you the opportunity to use your skills in a new context, or work with a different type of people/client/customer. Give them reason to believe that it's *this* job you really want, and not just any job you can find. What's more, give them reasons to believe that you see yourself staying in the job for at least 5 years.

Sometimes when there's an already decided-on candidate, it isn't always from inside the company -- it is often someone who's been recommended by someone inside. This happens at tech companies quite a lot, and state agencies as well.

If not having the bachelor's degree is what keeps you from getting a supervisory job, what would it take for you to get one? Do you have credits or experience that would apply towards one? Don't I remember you having gone to school not so recently, or was that another one of our Northwesterners who was also looking for work?

It's definitely worth trying to find a way to take a mock interview seriously. What always helped me to take it more seriously was to actually dress up for it, have it in an unfamiliar place, and with someone I didn't know personally doing the interview.

keep that chin up!


Mikey

Gee you must really like to stay up late...

Just after I sent in the post to hootoo, I found another supervisory position and I applied. It is in Forrest Grove and the listed pay scale was lower than I would hope but it gave me hope as an entry level supervisor we'll see.

Thanks for everything