h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

That entry of mine was pretty awful just as well I can laugh at myself, or I'd go insane.

This is the revised version (A61467456), using your comments and info I found. It's still a work in progress, but I think it's 99% better than the other one.

Any comments on the new version welcome

Oh, that last paragraph - I was thinking of neighbours of mine when I lived in a caravan in Scotland. They didn't like dogs, but their (spoilt) 6 yr old daughter wanted a puppy, so they bought her a puppy, and a crate, well you can guess the rest...the novelty of puppy soon wore off and the poor thing spent most of the time in the crate, ignored. I don't know how that ended, I moved back to Essex. Hopefully, they saw sense and rehomed the dog.

Emmily

I haven't been back to the thread yet, been so busy with work. Do you want me to just check in with the new version, or go through the PR thread?

I did start fretting later that I'd come on too strong.

Up to you if you want to read the PR thread, nothing bad there. I didn't take offence to your long post, though I have unsubscribed from that thread now. I missed the word 'don't' out of the last sentence before I unsubscribed.

I'd appreciate your comment on the new version (A61467456) when you have the time.

Emmily

ok here goes:

"you will need to purchase a crate big enough so that when the puppy grows into an adult dog, she2 has enough space to comfortably stretch out on the floor without touching the sides, and to sit without hitting her head on the top of the crate."

Crates should be big enough for the dog to stand up in and turn around in. Often sitting makes them taller than standing, but not always.

"You'll need to allocate an area of the crate for puppy to use as a toilet. This needs to be in the furthest corner away from the puppy's bed, as dogs don’t naturally mess near their beds. You can purchase purposely made pads or just use plenty of newspaper."

There are two schools of thought for this one. Generally, the crate should be small enough that it's all bed, so the pup won't soil it (as long as it is let out often enough to pee), but this is normally when it's paired with long term confinement, which does have a toilet.

Due to space (and me not having puppies permanently in the house) I prefer to use a very large crate so it's got enough room for a separate toilet.

Either way, the toilet area should *never* have food, water, or toys on it, so something to stop toys rolling onto it is a good idea.

"it should just be a matter of placing her in the bed and shutting the door when she has a nap, when she wakes up give her lots of praise before letting her out."

Never let puppy out when she's crying, barking, whining or pawing at the door. Wait for quiet, but this does mean paying close attention and letting puppy out as soon as they wake up if they've been sleeping. The older the puppy, the longer the quiet time needed before the door is open (two minutes at the longest).

I wonder if you could put in at the beginning that some puppies may need help settling down. They can be like toddlers - running around and being a pain in an effort not to sleep. A crate is ideal to help them sleep. Fred was like it when he came to me (although he was a very old puppy, 11 months!) and some of the boarders of 8-10 months are like this too. Just don't want to miss anything!

I wouldn't mind house training touched on, but that's probably another entry. Maybe I could write one, then I can link to this?

Mina

Crates should be big enough for the dog to stand up in and turn around in. Often sitting makes them taller than standing, but not always.

Done, that was the easiest bit to do.

There are two schools of thought for this one. Generally, the crate should be small enough that it's all bed, so the pup won't soil it (as long as it is let out often enough to pee), but this is normally when it's paired with long term confinement, which does have a toilet.

I've taken that paragraph out, changed and added to the bed paragraph.

Never let puppy out when she's crying, barking, whining or pawing at the door. Wait for quiet, but this does mean paying close attention and letting puppy out as soon as they wake up if they've been sleeping. The older the puppy, the longer the quiet time needed before the door is open (two minutes at the longest).

This I'm stuck on. I've got this far

'There are two things which contradict each other: 1)do not let puppy out of the crate while she is making a fuss ie barking, whining, or scratching at the crate, as this will teach her that this is the way to gain your attention and get what she wants. 2) Try to avoid leaving her in the crate if she's distressed, this may lengthen the time it takes her to get used to the crate. Ideally let puppy out of the crate as soon as she wakes up, before she has a chance to make a fuss. (now I’m stuck. I don’t know what to suggest if puppy is making a fuss – talk calmly, turn back on puppy, walk away could you advise me please Mina)'

That's as far as I've got with your post.

Emmily

If a puppy was frantic, ie trying to dig her way out, chewing her own paws, throwing herself about, I'd just let her out, because traumatising the puppy is not what I want to do. If the pup is just complaining, crying, barking, pawing at the door, I'd leave her in and wait for quiet.

With a young puppy it's extremely unlikely that this will happen, as they tend to just accept life as it is, and it's likely the breeder used some form of 'containment' as well.

There aren't many good trainers who say remove the pup if she's making a fuss, because they know dogs will try it on to see what they can get, so there's not really any contradiction. I suppose it depends on what you mean by distressed. I'd see distressed as I described it above, really frantic and in danger of hurting herself.

If owners follow the natural routine of a dog's 'cycle', the hunt, kill & eat, sleep, they shouldn't have any problem. Play and exercise with puppy, feed them, pop them in the crate for a nap. They might whimper and moan for a bit, just ignore them and they'll nod off.

Mina, I'm taking a break from this for a couple of days, go back to it with a fresh brain.

Emmily

Hi Mina,

I've updated the Entry using your advice, where it may appear I haven't, then it's because I misunderstood you.

I think the reason I was having so much trouble with the other Header, was that it didn't fit, and wasn't needed.

Though I think something is needed between the last two Headers, I haven't worked out what yet.

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'I wouldn't mind house training touched on, but that's probably another entry. Maybe I could write one, then I can link to this?'

I think that would be a good idea.

I'm working on another dog re-lated entry (still in Word) on dog euthanasia. I had a bad experience when I had Elsa put to sleep, it was very distressing, and I want to help others avoid it. The situation was pretty easy to avoid, I just wasn't in the right frame of mind to say something.

Emmily

Oh dear, sorry to hear you had a bad time with poor Elsa. How awful.

I think I would keep well away from that entry. I have heard some real horror stories and seen worse, sometimes. Buster died at home with no vet intervention, but I did see a stray dog beging the process and it was the worst thing I've ever seen. I had to leave.

I'll have another look, but I can't promise when, sorry. Just had the first day of an incredibly busy week!

I wouldn't call what happened with Elsa a horror story, it was distressing for me, but then that may just have been me being over-sensitive.

Although I didn't post, I was thinking of you when I read Buster had died. We have our dogs for such a short time.

The dog euthanasia entry doesn't contain any horror stories, just information. It was upsetting for me to write, but it's not upsetting to read unless the subject matter is raw to start off with, if you know what I mean.

No worries about reading the puppy crate entry, there's no rush as and when you can. I appriciate you taking the time.

Emmily

It's looking great, the only thing now I'd like to mention is this bit:

"However, as puppies don't have much control over their bladders some bed soiling will be unaviodable, particulary over-night, or if puppy is left in the crate for an extended time. Therefore it's a good idea to have a couple of spare clean blankets to swap over as and when needed."

Because if the pup gets used to messing their bed they've lost their inhibitions and it's incredibly difficult to stop them and get them housetrained properly.

Your advice is perfectly correct, if the pup is left in too long and messes the bed, it needs to be replaced with a clean one, but I'd like to see it mentioned a bit less 'matter of factly' as if it doesn't really matter if they mess the bed when really it can be very important. It is possible to avoid pup messing their beds, even in a crate. Just means the owner has to get out of bed and/or never leave it in there too long.

It is your entry though, so I'll understand if you're happy with it as it is.

Mina, I'm happy to deal with that point, I wouldn't ask for your advice and then ignore it.

I'm holding it back from PR for a couple more weeks, give them more time to forget the original awful one I submitted.

Remember a couple of years back, I said I'd write an Entry on Barbara Woodhouse, finally going to get around to writing that one. Not sure I'll get away with accusing some of her methods as bullying, but I'll try.

Emmily

ooh, will look forward to that one as well! I bought a few of her books from ebay last year as I wanted to compare them to training methods now.

One thing to remember is that training evolves as people learn more - so in some ways she was just doing what all dog trainers were doing at the time. Some of the stuff in her books makes real sense, even now.

I've got a huge collection of even older dog training books, where the methods of training would now have you up on charges. The method to stop dogs chasing sheep was to tie a dog to a ram on a big stick thing, and let it get beaten up a bit! Also 'heelwork' came from the bash in the head from the heel of a boot to keep the gundog behind the person with the gun!

Now you've really spoilt my day I can get around mentioning her ways by saying something like, the same training methods may have been happening in dog training classes across the country, but it was Barbara we actually witnessed doing them.

I've only got one book on BW. I'll log on the library later, see what I can order.


Emmily

You are welcome to borrow mine, as long as I get them back, or I can give you the names etc. I think most of them cost me only a couple of quid each on ebay.

I'll see how it goes, I may have enough with the book I have and the info I can source online.

I've just had a quick look on ebay, it seems it's all pay by Paypal, which I refuse to join up to. I used to sell on ebay, I stopped as soon as they went anti-seller, no negs for bad buyers.

Had a look at library too, won't let me log on. Apparently the library system has been changed, and everyone's getting new library cards and new log in details.

Emmily

Must be fashionable to keep changing systems.

My paypal has been compromised, so I can't sell anything on paypal as sellers *must* offer paypal.