h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Anyway...I'm only having fun . I'm trying to goad Math into admitting that The Human Rights Act doesn't quite merit the level of opprobrium that he started out with.

Certainly it's refreshing to know that there are people who realise what tot said paper is, I spent four years convincing my mother, I go away for one year to university and when I come down, I find her back reading the filth - though opporunity didn't rise to question her on it. I hope she is at least now taking it with a pinch of salt as opposed to her previous view "it's like a broadsheet but it's smaller so it's easier to handle."

I'm quite picky about my newspapers - I'll only read semi-intelligent ones, liberal or nonbiased ones, and ones with a reasonable standard of copy-editing (though I make an exception for the Grauniad of course).

This definitely rules out my town's paper - which, while belonging to a relatively major American metropolis, endorsed Bush for the presidency in '04 and never seems to quote anyone correctly. Once when I complained to my school paper about misquoting me, the faculty advisor pointed out that my city's paper misquotes people all the time. I explained that this was not a valid excuse.

Yeah...my father-in-law gets The Mail. The thing is, he's not a bad sort. I think it stems from its being the posh paper for the lower-middle class. His heart's in the right place on most of the important political issues, but sometimes we find him saying "Did you read that story about..." and we have to remind him that The Mail has a tendency to...how shall I put it?...embellish.

I really should make more of an effort to keep up with the European papers. I have a German friend who despises our left-of-centre press for their lack of radicalism. The only British paper he has time for is the FT, which at least doesn't have an editorial stance.

Hi Eddie

"Of course I never *did* accuse Math or anyone of reading The Daily Mail. I was merely expressing puzzlement that Math should be coming out with similarly irrelevant attacks on the HRA. Sorry if the irony didn't transmit."

Unlike you I don't actually read the DM and haven't even seen a copy for at least thirty years. If you don't read it how can you know what it contains? Anyhoo, not reading it means I cannot align my views with it. Are you saying that the DM wishes to rewrite the HRA into a sensible format?

"You're not *quite* there with my use of 'reactionary'. Yes, it was a popular left-wing word, but I'm trying to use it more accurately."

Hmmm... my definition is that in the Concise Oxford Dictionary, shaded with my experience. Are you redefining the word then?

"I'm not necessarily saying that you oppose social progress"

Well that is a relief.

"Math - more that your idea of progress is, in so many ways, regressive. It harks back to a golden age in which people would rush to help the wounded and in which the men would all sit around in long houses and mutually agree the laws. (And garotte transgressors before throwing them into bogs . Society ain't like that, though."

I have no golden age illusions I can assure you. I believe in social evolution, which things like the HRA are only negative blips. As for your wholly inaccurate bog jibe that is a whole different thread.

"We live in a liberal democracy (Liberal not as in Lembit, nor as in laissez-faire). In such a system it is necessary to state a framework in which we allow our government to operate."

OK, I do know what you mean by liberal, oi vey boy I was in politics when back when you thought frisbees were cool. I still find your faith in government by the people very touching. We are an ancient country with a system that serves an elite. Follow the money...

"Such a thing can be called a 'constitution' or a 'Human Rights Act'."

<-repeat until nauseous.

"Your various posts suggest that you've either misunderstood the HRA's function in that respect or...more charitably...have decided to go off at a complete tangent."

And again with the "you don't understand it" whine. I understand it. I also understand its place in the machinery of government - a nice shiny coat of "governement is your friend" paint.

"Possibly, though (and it's genuinely hard to tell amongst the smoke and mirrors), what you're after is a complete re-shaping of society in which such as an HRA is irrelevant and everyone lives happily ever after."

Uh...yeah. What are you after? A society where everyone dies horribly?

" Well - maybe it would be nice. Meanwhile, in the real world, forcing governments to abide by an HRA is a worthwile and, who knows, achievable endeavour."

Forcing governments? Have you heard yourself? Remember who has the guns, the law and the machinery of state.

"But it's still got fish all to do with whether we help one another at the scene of an accident. Which is where you came in."

Back to the topic then. In France it is the law, so let's embrace our gallic cousins ways.

"Anyway...I'm only having fun . I'm trying to goad Math into admitting that The Human Rights Act doesn't quite merit the level of opprobrium that he started out with."

Failed again.

Blessings,
Matholwch .

But Math...I'm still not hearing a sensible alternative from you.

Nor am I hearing why it's a valid criticism to say that laws written by humans, for humans are 'humanocentric'. (Unless, possibly, you're taking the theocentric view that human laws should be aligned with some sort of cosmic order. Which is tosh, obviously, so you wouldn't be saying that.).

As for reading The Mail...it's good to exercise one's spleen vents occasionally. That's the same reason I listen to Melanie Griffiths or Clifford Longley on 'The Moral Maze'. Know thine enemy!

Mind you...I agree with you completely on:

>>...a nice shiny coat of "governement is your friend" paint.

Yes - as I said way back, it's typical of New Labour to try and do the easy thing that makes them look good. BUT - *if applied vigorously*, the HRA can be a thorn in their side - a petard on which to hoist them. And that's what I've been advocating; that we hold them to their word. It's good stuff. Now let's fight to actually apply it.