h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Hi Bx4

Jefferson Airplane does indeed ring a bell. The ins and outs of how Cameron's salary was arrived at I'll not worry myself with here. Suffice to say there do appear to be differing versions of events.

Whether the 362 LA are better value than their £142,500 pa + salaries is an open question; IMO not. Could better managers be sought for half this amount? - I think so.

JSA: This link suggests that it is now more difficult to get JSA – You can say that again (though I;d rather you didn't)! Laying FOC to not spots: I suspect they'll lay them to the 362 first.

Forbrydelsen: Yes an hour or so to go before the weekly two hour dose. We reach the half way point tonight. The political component is the most interesting for it suggests that is where we should look for a perpetrator. What other reason can there be for putting this into every week so far? The family and police are by the by components of every young person killing story.

I am constantly reminded of Twin Peaks, maybe because of the way the end titles work; Nanna's face for Laura Palmer's, the slow menacing pace, the weird police food references bananas and hotdogs for doughnuts.

The Guardian article made an observation about the sky growing ever darker. Twin Peaks ended in darkness as I recall.

Battery about to go dead so...

bs

hi rg

142.5: All that seems to be clear is tha Broon the Doom cut his wedge to 150K so given the 'We're all in this together' rhetoric it would seem inadvisable to have re-upped his.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7719739/Coalition-Government-David-Cameron-announces-pay-cut-for-ministers.html

FoC: I may have misunderstood I thought FoC had been laid to the 'mansions'

The Crime: I hadn't noticed the Twin Peaks reference but I see what you mean. Found this on a Dutch site:

http://www.eeuwigweekend.nl/wp-content/2010/02/nannalaura-409x280.jpg

After 9 & 10 I think that the discoveries in the flat, with possible link to Hartmann, may well prove, like Rama, a red herring.

It seems that we have slight change of direction in that, whereas previously we only knew essentially what the police knew, we now know about Nanna working in the same bar as her aunt which the police don't.

Another odd shift which I don't get is that Buchard's insistence on keeping Lund on the case, rather than letting her decamp to Sweden, but suddenly, apparently at the behest of Rie Skovgaard, is intervening to protect 'City Hall' and attempting to send Lund to Sweden.

back to work so

bs

Hi Bx4

Test message to h2g2

rg

hi rg
saw your test post which oddly is numbered 142.5. After the great (if much delayed )success of of the iPad2 I ill-advisedly embarked on another cleanup of my audiovisual cabling some progress but no apotheosis and so to be

Hi Bx4

Now rg appears twice. I'm locked out of version 1. Shades of how the first Groups went.

bs

hi rg

'142.5' appears to be a replacement title "'mornin' I presume since you can post here your lockout is only
partial.

I had a look at both Peet's Place and Sue's. I don't find the format of either particularly user friendly the former more than the latter. My reluctance to get involved in either because, as I said on Twitter I find I have little empathy the Pocketverse #1 Weltanschauung/Zeitgeist too cliquey, too much 'Middle England' and too much a 'social network' for my taste.

I have a vague recollection that (smee)sue lives on the WI.

bs

Hi Bx4

One oddity about this new place is that I appear to be replying to myself, rather than see what you've written, instead below is my previous message. I'll go with '142.5' it seems harmless enough for a conversation title - not as snappy as 'morning though I'll get use to it. 'I am not a number' also springs to mind (1+5, 4+2, =6).

I'm sorry you didn't like Sue's. I went there because it was fresh and shiny new when I joined. It seems a far gentler place than PBV though with the arrival of some 'old faces' this may change. I've enjoyed trying out my basic maths skills on the long thread which I notice appears in another incarnation in Peet's? http://www.paranormal.org.uk/mustardland/viewtopic.php?t=14450&highlight=maths

As for format I liked the earlier simple layout - the addition of barnacles like pinned threads, announcements and banners are an unnecessary distraction imv. BTW Suesmee has a profile in h2g2 http://www.h2g2.com/user/U5496649 "Outer Hebrides"

It's a bit too early to say if I'll stay. It's ironic that you complain that the two main replacements to PBV are "Middle England" when they both appear to be run from Scotland.

Hope the wiring is OK now?

bs

Hi rg

I am a bit puzzled that when I try to reply to your messages by clicking on the 'Reply' button the message to which I am replying appears to be the last one of mine.

The wiring like the Forth Rail Bridge is a permanent work in progress.

I suppose there is a degree of irony that the successors of Pocketverse#1 are run from Scotland though the islands of Scotland has more then their fair share of 'white settlers' but I don't think the location of the sites reflects the location of the majority of the posters.

My dislike of Sue's was more of the format than the content though if the 'old guard' from Pv#1 migrate there, as you say,

Maths: I never reallky got into the 'Maths' thread perhaps because defining computational models for tertiary protein folding is a large part of my day job.

I haven't checked sue's to see if there is a 'Scottish' thread yet though I am not inclined to get involved in part because I think a 'Yes' vote is unlikely in 2014. I think like the other parties the SNP was wrong footed by getting an overall majority in 2011 - the electoral being designed (supposedly) to preclude this. Personally I think they should have gone for 'devo-max' which is more popular with the Scottish electorate.

I haven't been paying much attention to new from the UK but I gather Slick Dave's lot has been bumped in third by UKIP in the Eastleigh by-election.

I am getting ready to take B2 of its lift in anticipation of spring although its still quite wintry here zero to sub-zero forecact for next few days.

bs

Hi Bx4

Of the two main PBV successors both appear to be thriving. Peet's has twice as many members though perhaps this isn't surprising as it has been going since 2005 whereas Sue's started a little under three weeks ago. So far as I can see Sue's more closely follows the PBV layout whereas Peet's seems to utilise nested posts. Many contributors belong to both message boards and carry over their PBV name .

The 'MATHS OH DEAR !' thread is more about mental arithmetic than computer programming. I find it fun to do the sample papers as well as dreaming up ways to build bottle boxes from 1.2m2 10mm board. There IS a Scottish Tread in Peet's http://www.paranormal.org.uk/mustardland/viewtopic.php?t=14955 "I'd very much like to discuss the issue of Scottish independence without the shoutiness that always happened in TOS when this subject came up. Can it be done here?" is a plea from the OP.

We already have lopsided devolution. I don't think lopsided devo-max would be popular in England though I could be wrong as there hasn't been much fuss exhibited by the electorate as a whole; as opposed to by some commentators. The independence referendum must now play out. I'd have thought a Yes vote was more likely than a No. That said at least the Scottish electorate has a say. This hasn't been always been the case when the administration of part of the UK has been reallocated.

The Eastleigh By-Election was bad news for everyone apart from The Liberal Democrats. The rest of the field were losers. Some have speculated that we may have another unelected PM; A Brown MKII as it were. I think surely not. The experience in Europe has been that administrations presiding over recession get the boot (I'm thinking of Greece, Italy and Spain). Why should the UK be different (though it a sense it was so as Brown lost even though the economy was growing back in 2010).

I used BB last week and plan to again in the next; the weather remains cold though frost free.

bs

hi rg

I wrote a reply which disappeared when I tried to preview it. Will try again later.

hi rg

This time written in Notepad so disappearance less problematic.

Started a /new/ thread with psiomniac which does not exhibit 'replying to oneself' phenomenon.


Must confess I prefer Sueboard layout to Peetboard layout. Thought of joining former until I encountered 'Modding' thread. Inability to distiguish between bashing and justified criticism suggests an anodyne board emerging. Meets and rhubarb jam recipes.

Shouty: Not sure what being 'shouty' consists of and why threads on Scottish independence hould be considered more so than others. In any case, not a fan of self appointed board prefects who try to dictate zeitgeist of threads.

Couldn't find thread on PP. Might join SP to start thread on wht some people are pro-Union. Will it be 'shouty'.

Don't see why English should have a say in the extent of self - governance desired by other countries in UK. Lack of any ambition for change in English governance suggest English happy with status.

Surely in Westgov elections the only people who 'elect' a Prime Minister are the voters in his/her constituency?

Programming: Nor programming but modelling Markov chains and suchlike. So not mental arithmetic which is just as well since I'm rather bad at it. Slide rule generation, me.


B2 off lift and battery in place. Started fine.

bs

Hi Bx4

I've adopted your idea and copied/pasted into LibreOffice so I can see what I'm replying to. This has the bonus of being a broader canvas and easier to take in for my tired eyes. It is interesting that you report the "replying to oneself" phenomenon only manifests itself in legacy threads.

"An anodyne board emerging" - I see what you mean; though so far modding hasn't affected any of the threads that I was involved in. Perhaps my attitude is selfish and will change when I'm directly affected? The "justified criticism" on the Muslim thread included what I saw as the "you didn't reply to my post so I'm right" gambit. I'm all in favour if that sort of nonsense is stamped on. I agree that "self appointed board prefects" should, at the very least, be ignored.

"Don't see why English should have a say in the extent of self - governance desired by other countries in UK." The UK is a country from my perspective. Perhaps many see a federation called the UK? If the UK is to remain, imv, one country after the 2014 vote then governance should be even from Lands End to John o' Groats. That said I'd be more than pleased for Scotland to go her own way if that's the choice of those who live there. As said, many times before, they are fortunate in not having others decide for them where their administrative centre should lie.

"The only people who 'elect' a Prime Minister are the voters in his/her constituency?" - This is perfectly true though ignores the party system. In General Elections we elect our local representative who most probably stands on a party platform with a party leader who will become Prime Minister if their party wins the most seats. We even have Prime Minister debates now at election time.

"Markov chains and suchlike." - Can you fill this out a tiny bit? I'm guessing protein molecules though my biology extends only to O-Level.

Slide rule - I keep meaning to dig mine out and have it handy (yet I'm afraid it would be chucked out as rubbish if left out) as I appreciate non battery powered equipment and tools.

"B2 off lift and battery in place. Started fine." - Good job. I presume, unlike me last week, you remembered to keep the starter pushed until the engine started. I actually got stuck off road yesterday adjacent to a hedge after misjudging a dip in the muddy ground. I couldn't go forwards and backwards was too steep to push. To escape I ended up building a ramp!

bs

hi rg

The technique I'm using is to open the conversation in two separate tabs allowing me to read yours while 'replying' to last one of mine. I wonder, given that the problem does not occur in my /new/ conversation with psiomniac, whether the problem is a consequence of '142.5' being an /old/ thread transferred from the PitW h2g2.

My 'adamantine' resolve has collapsed already and I have joined PP to take part in the independence thread. Somewhat puzzled by the approach of some, presumably pro-Unionist posters, whose approach is to point out potential difficulties, currency, EU membership etc. as if we Scots were incapable of assessing the potential risks for ourselves. I find this somewhat patronising.

Country: From my perspective I see the UK as more a state or perhaps more properly a superstate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstate made up of separate countries.On this basis I think the right of self-determination applies. Interestingly, the 'constitution' of the latest addition to the UK, Northern Ireland, allows for an 'in/out' referendum enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. As I have said I find it odd that there is no significant movement amongst the English electorate for English devolution/independence.

Party system: I don't think I am ignoring this since your argument presumes that party leaders are chosen by the commonality of party members. This is not the case since in the Labour and Tory parties at least, the candidates for party leader are /pre-selected/ by MPs and MEPs. Only then are ordinary party members allowed to choose one of this restricted set of candidates. If there is only one candidate there is no vote.

'stamped on': Yes I agree here but the debate on modding seemed to be about the closure of of one thread because of supposed 'Muslim bashing' though the consensus seemed to be that the thread was in fact quite civil. Later this was extended by moderators to include 'bashing' of other religions and 'philosopies' though the moderators seemed unwilling or unable as to how 'bashing' could be distinguished from legitimate criticism.

Markov chains: I have to be careful because much of our work is 'commercial in confidence' but one of the areas which I am involved in is the attempt to produce novel proteins by incorporating coding (hopefully) DNA sequences into certain prokaryotes and single cell eukaryotes. This is somewhat analogous to designing machine tools in engineering though somewhat more hit and miss and quite expensive. Since the tertiary folding structure of proteins is implicated in their biological behaviour one way of reducing costs is to design simulations which predict the likely dynamics and final tertiary folding structure.

A number of modelling tools are available for this and we use a combination of these. One of which is Markov state chains. - http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/06/29/1201810109.full.pdf One of the difficulties in running such simulations is that they are computationally expensive. The PNAS article mentions Anton which is a massively parallel computer specifically designed to run such simulations. This is way beyond the level of investment we can accommodate so our approach is somewhat similar to the Folding@home approach also mentioned and the somewhat different Rosetta@home in using a recently built Beowulf cluster distributed network - http://yclept.ucdavis.edu/Beowulf/aboutbeowulf.html This a reasonably accessible introduction to Markov chains albeit not related to protein folding - http://www.sosmath.com/matrix/markov/markov.html and this is an admittedly more complicated account which is - http://biomaps.rutgers.edu/lecture_12_3_23_25_2010_draw_as_pic.pdf

Slide rule: During my brief postdoc career in academe I had access to the Sumlock Anita 1011 electronic calculator - http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/sumlock_anita.html - state of the art in '71.

B2: As you no I don't use it as an urban commuter preferring pedal cycle or in inclement weather a combination of the route 62 harbour ferry and S1 S-Bahn.

bs

Hi Bx4

"Potential difficulties, currency, EU membership etc." - I can see that it may appear patronising for outsiders to bring these issues up. Most of the 'experts' posting on the various Monmouthshire threads appeared to come from outside the county. Even Shropshire who claimed some local knowledge got tripped up when they declared that "there were no shops in Raglan". So it is on Scottish Referendum threads; the 'experts' offering opinions don't necessarily even have a vote. Also if the FM claims to have received expert advice on EU membership and there is some doubt expressed about the authenticity of the claim in the Scottish Parliament then in my view that's fair game for discussion by anyone.

'The right of self-determination applies': I'm all in favour of self determination though I don't hold to the idea that only certain groups are entitled to it. Self-determination doesn't extend to the right to choose the political system in one part of a state (akin to a sort of 'pick and mix' udi).

"Your argument presumes that party leaders are chosen by the commonality of party members" - I disagree and will try and make my point again. Imagine there is a General Election in the UK tomorrow and we have one vote each. The candidates are A, B & C and they belong to political parties 1, 2 & 3 led respectively by alpha, beta and gamma. The leaders were chosen by no one in particular. Now I'm not a mind reader, I can't tell if someone is voting for candidate, party, candidate or a combination of all three. The expectation is that the leader of the largest party after the election will become PM; my contention is that we voters put them there by voting for their party's candidate. Clearly if the party bring in someone else mid-term then the punter who voted for A because they wanted alpha to be PM could feel aggrieved as could those who thought that party 1 only won because Alpha was leader at the time of the election and were acting dishonestly when declaring that Alpha was to "serve a full term".

"The moderators seemed unwilling or unable as to how 'bashing' could be distinguished from legitimate criticism" - I can see that this is no different to PBV. There the rules were vague and I think that was deliberately so. Ultimately if the board hosts decide there shall be no 'Muslim bashing' (there is no definition provided) and contributors could no doubt choose to defect posting on Peet's instead using their dual identities?

Markov chains: (From your link) "We therefore suggest that slow register-shift dy-namics may be a general phenomenon in beta topologies". I'll be honest here - this might as well be written in Chinese! I am grateful for the 'machine tools' analogy for this paints a picture I can comprehend. I can also see that this sort of work 'can't be done by a yob' (not my expression).

As well as the slide rule; my attic also contains a 1980s calculator - mains powered, led display, proper spaced out keys and a printer. The print outs were useful for stapling to 'take off sheets' as back up.

bs

hi rg

Rats! Blew it again accidentally closing tab with my reply to your latest. I'll catch up later. Somewhat sort of sleep due to ill-advised extended participation in 'Scottish Independence' thread though my interest has waned

My participation on the Scottish Independence thread was ended earlier today by the mod "somebody else". Thanks "stupid" Shropshire. I lasted a day on that forum before seeing the shutter pulled down on a thread I was participating in.

BB started first time in 3.5C and ran well on a bit of a English/Welsh borderland circuit. I experimented with switching to 'normal' suspension on the fly. I felt the result was too choppy and returned to 'comfort'.

hi rg

Yes I saw the censorship. I don't recall that a thread being 'grumpy and spatty' was a reason on any of the old BBC boards. for a thread being placed in temporary (?) durance vile. I noticed the dementor the mentions the 'House Rules' but I can't find any mention of them anywhere.

Given,also that there appears to be no obvious appeals procedure I am thinking of starting a thread 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes'. I may have a PETA moment

bs

hi rg

Replying to 1454

patronising: In part I find it patronising because of the implication that those of us who favour independence are either unaware of the difficulties or if aware are too feckless to research the issues for ourselves. The latter is particular patronising when the usual suspects

A second irritation that many of the 'usual suspects' have themselves failed to adequately research an issue as for example Shropshire Lad who claimed that an independent Scotland 'couldn't use the (rUK) pound completely failing to grasp the notion of a currency peg. For example , the Estonian Second Kroon, 1992-2011, was pegged to the D-mark and then to the Euro when Germany adopted. Note I am not saying that pegging is without problems but these are real problems not fantasy ones.

I'm not arguing that only Scots should debate matters relevant to Scottish independence or that only those who have the vote should. To take your parallel example I don't think simple being Monmouth resident confers any special expertise on the 'Monmouth Question'

As to the Salmond issue I am not sure that it is 'fair game' when the Salmond's statements were being formally investigated. . Perhaps I am old fashioned in my adherence to the principle of 'innocent until proved guilty' and my aversion to kangaroo courts and trial by media. By the way a report by Sir David Bell, a former Whitehall mandarin, concluded that the first minister did not deliberately try to mislead voters or opposition parties about his government's legal advice on an independent Scotland's future membership of the EU.

One part of a state:: 'The right of self-determination in regard to the question of membership in a state thus means: whenever the inhabitants of a particular territory, whether it be a single village, a whole district, or a series of adjacent districts, make it known, by a freely conducted plebiscite, that they no longer wish to remain united to the state to which they belong at the time, but wish either to form an independent state or to attach themselves to some other state, their wishes are to be respected and complied with.'
http://mises.org/liberal/ch3sec2.asp

So inhabits of of a state who are not part of the of the particular territory have no involvement in the decision.

My point again : I understand your argument but I am not persuaded by it. I'll try and explain. I think the problem is peculiar to the Westminster' type of representative democracy where where one effectively elects a representative it is to the legislature not to the executive. However the consequence is that if one selects a representative of the majority group or coalition of groups one has also selected.

I think this system is quite different from one where the electorate (more or less ) directly elects the head of the executive since the only part of the electorate that directly gets to vote for the head of of a 'Westminster' style executive are the electors in his or her constituency.

I understand the thrust of your argument that leads to your 'my contention is that we voters put them there by voting for their party's candidate. ' One obvious flaw is that assuming you vote for a from party 1 and party 1 is the majority party it does not follow that you will get alpha as Prime Minister because the electorate in which alpha is standing may not elect him. Your 'serve a full term' seems to be problematic since there is nothing in the system that would trigger a new election simply because alpha does not serve a full term.

It may be that this type of expectation only occurs in an FPTP system where coalitions are the exception rather than the norm but what about 'Westminster' systems wher coalitions are the norm rather than the exception. For example after the 1999 and 2003 Scottish Parliamentary elections the the governing group was a Labour-Liberal coalition with Donald Dewar (Lab) as First Minister in 1999 and Jack McConnell (Lab) in 2003. By your argument voter might have reasonably assumed that a vote for Labour or the Liberal Democrats in 2007 would return McConnell as FM and it would have had the Liberal Democrats (for reasons that were never made public) opted not to go into coalition allowing the SNP to form a minority administration.

No different: One obvious difference is that it is one thing to censor a post for breaking a set of ambiguous house rules and another to shutdown a whole, apparently quite, civil thread because a moderator considered it to be 'Muslim bashing'. Peet's might well exhibit a less draconian interpretation of 'bashing' but not apparently to spattyness or grumpyness.

Markov Chains: Sadly the day of the the renaissance man is long gone and we have all become narrow specialiss not even really understanding what the guy on the next 'bench' is doing. If I want to find out about work in a different field i tend to buy one of the standard undergraduate texts or in extreme cases an 'Idiot's Guide'

Attic: Min has a 1984 Apple II/e http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Apple_iie.jpg/250px-Apple_iie.jpg with lots of fancy cards.

B2: I haven't had it out yet though I probably do trip to Travemünde when the weather's a bit better
bs

Hi Bx4

Special expertise: Politics requires no special expertise to allow discussion. We are all affected by the decisions of politicians whether it be not being able to hunt with dogs or being free to buy the sort of light bulb we'd like. The possible examples are seemingly endless. In any event we are regularly invited to participate in the political process - we are sometimes bit players before normality returns and the big boys and girls get to boss us around as usual.

Innocent until proved guilty: My recollection is that rather than discuss the FM's guilt or otherwise; surrounding issues such as secession and any automatic EU membership were debated. The issue of whether Holyrood was misled was merely the trigger.

'I don't think simple being Monmouth resident confers any special expertise on the 'Monmouth Question'': It is handy in providing a knowledge base not readily available to outsiders even in the age of Google. This extends to knowing what was actually taught in the classroom to the language heard in the (supposedly non existent) shops in Raglan. The downside is that outsiders are the decision makers so far as the location of the administrative centre for the county is concerned. Who needs expertise when all that's really wanted is a bigger stick?

'Inhabits of of a state who are not part of the of the particular territory have no involvement in the decision': I don't think this extends to the right of reorganising the greater state to suit themselves. By all means 'the inhabitants can leave to join someone else or form their own independent state'. Devo-max is something else.

'We voters put them there by voting for their party's candidate': Blair had a hundred majority in 2005 there was no other party to deal with. Even Brown himself must have had guilt pains exhibited by 'the election that never was' - he was 'going to' do the honourable thing and secure a mandate instead of coat tailing Blair's. No because we don't elect a PM he didn't have to instead tried to 'do a Major' hoping to win in his own right years after the event.

'One obvious flaw is that assuming you vote for a from party 1 and party 1 is the majority party it does not follow that you will get alpha as Prime Minister because the electorate in which alpha is standing may not elect him': True though how often does this happen? Also this doesn't cover the 'changing jockey in the middle of the race' scenario.

MBs: Ultimately these are run as private concerns not public services. The management has the right to pull the plug on whatever displeases them; it's their 'domain' to do with as they see fit. With the BBC we could claim a degree of ownership through the Licence Fee (not that it did us any good in the end for the master plug was pulled).

'Understanding what the guy on the next 'bench' is doing': Yes I take your point. I once literally spent years trying to explain to a boss how I did my job. They never got it. I am grateful for the picture you painted even if I can't seem to be able to differentiate a Markov Chain from a D lock.

'1984 Apple II/e': Don't suppose this did Tiger?

'Trip to Travemünde when the weather's a bit better': Yes I must admit yesterday's ride was far more enjoyable in sunshine with roads mostly devoid of traffic. The only scary bits were occasional rivers of water across the road which could have been ice.

bs

Censorship of /another/ Scottish thread.

An 'explanation' has now appeared:
'
Sorry folks, but it looks like this thread is being used to re-hash disagreements from other threads and now we have potentially racist comments being flung about.

This thread is now locked'

Unsurprisingly the moderayor is again 'someone else'
'