h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

[ditto my apology on the other thread for taking so long to respond. Guess I made the same mistake for both threads since the responses were at more or less the same time]

[On frequency of aspergic non-verbal confusions] Almost constantly. Her relatives (before she was diagnosed) found her to be obnoxious and aggressive. Generally people speaking to her get the impression that her mood is something radically different to what it is. At least once a conversation I feel I should explicitially ask what her mood is to be sure that I am not misinterpreting her and that she is feeling ok. Can't really put a number on it, but judging from the responses a lot.

[On faking nonverbal signals] The problem is that if someone has been trained to manipulate a certain set of signals to make their lies more convincing then even a person who is trained to the point that they can recognise all signals perfectly will get mixed signals and be unable to be sure.

[On body-language] You make a very good point. The answer is that I don't know. Some people have cyber-relationships and never take advantage of body-langauge, but haiving never tried it I couldn't say if a relationship conducted this way is as intense. Intuition says no. Then again intuition is wrong a lot.

In theory, people can be trained (and have some natural ability) to differentiate between faked and real nonverbal expression. Nothing is ever for sure, because communication is far from perfect even when people are trying to be completely honest.

I had a cyber-relationship. But like I said, individual relationships vary so much anyway.... I think it was intense... Different. More misunderstandings, not fulfilling, not very likely to last without a change in circumstance. I don't think I would do it again. I think only the potential for a RL relationship keeps it going.

[body langauge] Hmm, is there some movement you make naturally which it is physically impossible to fake? (Not a rhetorical question, there are things in the swallow reflex you can't do unless you are actually swallowing something) Otherwise it's just an issue of how many signals you can fake and how close to them you can get, so a good fake would be indistinguisable even to someone looking for a fake.

[cyber relationships] Hmm, probably true in your case - but there are people who have these relationships with people halfway across the world with no real chance of becoming an RL relationship. When you say not fufilling do you mean compared to a normal relationship (if such a beast exists) or at all?

[dilbert on cyber relationships] "The core driving factors for technology are money and male hormones. Therfore when virtual dating becomes cheaper than real dating the human race is doomed" Sorry, just reminded of that cartoon and had to get it out of me. Silly mood tonight.

Actually, I read that you can't use all the muscles you use to smile unless you're really smiling. You know what a fake smile looks like. I think it's really difficult to be a good fake. That's why actors usually use the strategy of actually feeling the things they're conveying. I've also heard that people make "micro" expressions, very short-duration facial expressions, when they're supressing them.

Not fulfilling compared with "real" relationships. Don't you think people halfway around the globe have a chance at a RL relationship if they want?

Virtual dating, as far as I know, does not lead to sex, so I'm sure the male hormones would keep doing their job. And will the human race be doomed when we stop focusing on technology?

[Body langauge] Really? Cool. Ok then I guess you can spot a good fake. Where did you read this?

[Online relationships] They can if they really want to. There are people who don't intend to - then again maybe the hope that their feelings will grow and and they'll want to move keep it going.

[Virtual dating] I meant virtual reality dating. The theory is that if people are having virtual sex then they're not having real sex and the species dies out after a generation

I read it in a textbook, but I can't find it. I could have sworn it was social pscyhology... Anyway, a real smile is called a "Duchenne" smile. So I looked for some random web page:

"Guillaume Duchenne mapped 100 facial muscles in 1862. In the course of that work, he had something to say about smiling. He pointed out that false, or even half-hearted, smiles involved only muscles of the mouth. But 'the sweet emotions of the soul,' he said, activate the pars lateralis muscle around the eyes."

I haven't found anything that says that you *can't* fake that, only that when people do, they do it wrong. They're probably looking at people without unusual training. Dunno.

Virtual sex... Like in that stupid movie with Sandra Bullock... That idea was also on Futurama, that propaganda video about why people shouldn't date robots. The Lucy Liu-bot one? Anyway, people could have sex without having babies now, most of the time (in the "developed" countries), and they choose to have babies anyway. People want babies as well as sex. Weird. Notably fewer babies, of course.

Some Mormon missionaries visited me the other day, one of them came from a family of 14 children. My mom came from a family of 8. Craziness.

Hey, remember me? The Forum art has been loaded up and you should be able to use it, but I don't see it on the community art page. Try this:





Ciao!

I aintnt dead!
I've put the banner at the start of the forum space. I read a convo that prompted me to do it on my own initiative and once I'd finished I came across 2 requests for me to do it. Not that anyone will belive that :P Gimme a min and I'll respond to those week old posts if I can still remember what we were talking about.

[Smiling] Now you mention it that seems to be true. Well I'm sure the good psychologists evidence is better than mine so it's not for me to say whether it's true - what I mean is that I observe that a lot. Earlier today someone tried to persuade me that they were not upset about something I'd done (they were trying to be nice to me, though I'd rather they were honest) and I replied 'your eyes aren't smiling'

I imagine anything can be faked with enough training. With the right conditioning people can change their body temperature by thinking about it - I imagine it's possible to fake eye movements the same way.

[Virtual sex] Haven't seen that movie and you don't inspire me towards watching it I must say. The idea of people wanting something to keep them up all night seems odd, but you make a very good point.

We play this game where one person is not really smiling and the other person notices but pretends not to notice, and the first person knows that the other person notices but pretends not to notice, and we have an understanding that we're pretending because it's easier than really communicating. It's something I'm trying to work on.

I idealistically hope that anyone with that kind of holistic mind-body connection realizes that there isn't much benefit to lying.

Hey, I didn't say I wanted any babies. Although there are people who claim that my "biological clock" will kick in when I'm older. Idiots.

They're idiots because they have no idea what they're talking about. It pisses me off that some people think women can't escape wanting babies. If this "clock" is biological, then it would have kicked in when I was 14 and physically capable of procreation. If it's cultural, then I've already demonstrated a resistance to social norms, and this is probably not going to weaken when I'm older.

[Lies] Surely it would just mean that there is no benefit to lieing to people who have developed such a connection? Those who have could still benefit from it. I've wondered what a soeciety without lies would be like - what counts as a lie anyway, white lies? Half truths?

[Babies] You've just received standing ovation from my right shoulder (where Jenna is sitting) for your comments. I don't think I can contradict it, not least because I find myself agreeing with you again.

I'm a pretty strong believer in honesty for all situations...

Standing ovation... cool.

Watch out for my first graphic set on the front page, for the article "Long Distance Bus Travel in the United States." I wasn't that excited by the entry, but the picture is ok..

Honesty in all situations? Even white lies? Take for example the situation where a shopkeeper asks if you have an extra 5p to make the change easier, but when you take into account your bus journey there and back and so on you can't give it to him. Do you say that you don't have it or do you explain your finances so he understands why you won't give it to him?

I generally don't read the frount page, jus' buzz me should it appear.

Sorry for disappearing there. I'm not sure why that happened.

I don't see what's so hard with "Sorry, I need it to take the bus." I find that I do feel the need to lie in order to avoid revealing any personal information.... I have a big need for privacy which I think maybe isn't so necessary.