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Post 1

Gullibility Personified


Aye, most shocked about the kiwi domination of our fine ozzie lads! I was in NZ for the scout (that is, *scouts* in uniforms with scarves, tying knots and what not) jamboree - apparantly there was something in the news about it, so maybe you heard something. I desperately want to go back to NZ, but I must say more for the people that I met rather than anything else! The jamboree was quite near Hamilton, at a place called "Mystery Creek Events Ground", or something similar.

Something that interested me in NZ, you may or may not have anything to say on the matter, was the incredibly racist, diminutive and derogatory way that many "white" kiwis spoke of maoris. I asked one of the best friends I made there why this was, and I respect his opinions on many things, but in this instance he basically said, "because they've f***** the place up." Is this the attitude most people have, and if so, why?

ta ta



Post 2


It is, regrettably.

My interpretation of the attitudes of my fellow countrymen (and I state categorically not mine) are as follows:

1) Maori are over-represented in crime and welfare statistics and therefore don't contribute to society.

2) Maori are always pushing their culture on other NZers. The Haka is ok, and its ok to drag it out for the tourists - they seem to like that stuff. But the whole of NZ society should decide what bits of Maori culture is worth keeping and what should be discarded - not just Maori.

3) The Waitangi Tribunal is seen to be very successful in giving apparently vast sums of money and vast tracts of land for apparently no reason. That these settlements are meant to redress confiscations of land and other ills committed by the Crown (from 50 to 150 years ago), doesn't matter - you shouldn't drag up the past. History which looks at any sort of this nonsense isn't history, it's revisionism.

4) They should speak in English, NZers speak English. They shouldn't speak in languages we can't understand.

Nobody's running around underneath bedsheets and there are no race riots - but the tensions are there under the surface. One of the radio journalists I know, and one of your fellow countrymen, had a spot to fill just after his news. He casually mentioned the idea of having little theatres around our province depiciting scenes and battles from the Maori Land Wars of the 1860s. A caller paid him a backhanded compliment saying, "I enjoy your news, but could you refrain from this leftwing bulls**t". smiley - sigh

Without wishing to appear snide or sarcastic, you must have some similar stories to tell from your side of the Tasman. One Nation, boat people (don't feel too bad about them, NZ public opinion was dead set against us having them either) and John Howard's favourite song "Sorry seems to be the Hardest Word"...

But as I always says "There are a**eholes wherever you go".

Oh yes, and I did hear of the scout jamboree, since you asked. smiley - smiley



Post 3

Gullibility Personified

My opinion of John Howard's attitude towards most stuff - smiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grr

1. Sounds very like the aboriginal people in Australia - that is, in fact, the allegory (? is that the right word?) offered to me by my friend when attempting to explain the situation.

2. Pushing their culture? - I must say, I didn't notice it. And I do like watching the Haka!

3. Do you mean that people think that "it's history, get over it, why should we give them land?" Because *dons * I can sort of see their point. Do the Maori people to whom this land is returned use it, or is it just a moral victory? *removes hat*

4. Language, it's the stuff of cultures! Several of my friends in NZ actually learn Maori in school - perhaps people are more critical of the Maori *people* rather than their *culture*?

Something more cheerful...I'm about to go and eat liquorice!



Post 4


Liquorice is supposed to be good at doing something for the body - I forget quite what now.

1. The word you're searching for is 'analogy' and yes, it is. As it is indeed for many indigenous peoples of the world.

2. One keen wit observed that in order to see any real Maori culture on television, you had to be either an atheist or insomniac.

3. Part of it is, as you say "it's history, get over it, why should we give them land?", some of it is also a perception of "something for nothing". And at the face of it, most people would agree. But as usual things are not so rosy beneath the surface.

Any land or compensation goes to the particular tribe or iwi (rhymes with Kiwi), which these days are run like large companies. And this is channelled into investments and holdings, so that the money generated will actually filter through to Maori (of that tribal affiliation) at ground level. One iwi owns a major fishery (Sealord), another bought the Warriors league team. (see one of these iwi through my links page

You have to, of course, prove you are of the tribe. Which proves difficult for many urban Maori who don't know their ancestry and have no way of accessing these funds.

Also the people running these corporate tribes are human and sometimes cock things up. But if a Maori business loses a ton of money, there are greater howls of outrage than if a Pakeha (European NZ) company screws up. And then they're accused of wasting tax payers money.

But in the case of many smaller tribes by the time, they pay off the lawyers, the only victory is a moral one. Vindication.

Claims going through the Waitangi Tribunal can take years to process, with tribes having to prove the historical right to the land. One local land claim if successful would see the transfer of ownership of an area of land to a particular tribe. They have had to work around leaseholders and bach owners occupying the site. (They would not be kicked off, but the terms of the leases and complete freedom of access might conceivably be altered under new ownership). Ngati Tama (rhymes with Party Farmer) has also had rival claims from another tribe. The final decision rested with the local council. These other parties complained they had not been consulted properly. Several months passed by while consultations and reports were made. The council then decided not to make any decision at all and threw the political hot potato back to central government. Which means that Ngati Tama and the Office of Treaty Settlements have to come up with something better to try and please everybody.

4. It's my opinion that anything "Maori" is enough to cause a rolling of eyes and muttered utterances of disgust.

Right now I'm eating cheese-flavoured rice crackers. They're supposed to be good at doing something for the body as well - I not sure quite what either.


Post 5

Gullibility Personified

sorry, I'm too...not-thinking-straight-and-excited right now, to reply logically, but I will soon, I promise!


*subtle hint*


Post 6


Have a happy one, Gullibility. I'd normally buy someone a birthday smiley - ale but you seem to be underage so I'll have to drink yours for you. smiley - smiley

Hmmm a smiley - gift... I know, I'll stick to my leftwing pinko tendencies and give you a plastic tiki, a little pendant of a green guy holding his stomach and sticking his tongue out.

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