h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi MMF. I've finished the Asterix project now, so I'm ready to start work on your project.

Are you ready to go?

As and when Gnomon. Let me know when you are ready. As of next Thursday I am completely at your disposal.

MMF

In your overview, you list Stone pine - Pinus pinea, but there is no entry for this one. Are you working on an entry, or will I just omit it from the list?

Sorry Gnomon. I must have skipped it when I transferred the entries from Appleworks.

The entry can be found here: A80867695.

Hope that helps.

MMF

Question: "This tree is also known as the holly or evergreen, scarlet, bloody or prickly oak"

Do you mean that the Holm Oak is also called the Holly, or do you mean it is called the Holly Oak?

>>"This tree is also known as the holly or evergreen, scarlet, bloody or prickly oak"<<

"This tree is also known as the holly, evergreen, scarlet, bloody or prickly oak"

Apologies.

MMF

So is it the holly or is it the holly oak?

It is also known as the holly oak, being evergreen and the young leaves can also be a little spikey. This is why it's latin name is Quercus ilex. ilex being latin for holly.

MMF

>>fluorescing blue in an acidic pH under fluorescent light

Are you sure it is under fluorescent light? Or could it possibly be under ultraviolet light?

>>largest can be found at Tolwortyh Court Hotel

Can you please provide the correct spelling for this name?

The Tulip Tree:

Genus: Liriodendron liriodendron
Species: Liriodendron tulipfera liriodendron

I know that you normally make the "Scientific Name" by putting the Genus and species together. So is the Scientific name of this plant really as follows?

Liriodendron liriodendron Liriodendron tulipfera liriodendron

So it says:
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LITU

Guess it should, by rights, be:
Genus: Liriodendron
Species: tulipfera

I've also found out it is known as the King of the Magnolias or tulip poplar.



MMF

The Sweet Chestnut:

I understand that Charles Bridgeman lived from 1690 to 1738. So how come his avenues were planted in the years from 1867 to 1880?

And I still need answers to postings 10 and 11.

Apologies, Gnomon. Been out on leaving does the last couple of day]s as now redundant, so more time to spend on entries.

>>fluorescing blue in an acidic pH under fluorescent light<<
fluorescing blue in an acidic pH under u.v. light.

>>largest can be found at Tolwortyh Court Hotel<<
largest can be found at Tolworthy Court Hotel.

>>Charles Bridgeman. He also assisted in the designs at Blenheim Palace, and a garden at Marble Hill. He specialised in a less-rigid garden design being pursued in the Anglo-Dutch style than the formal styles of the day. Hence the avenue of sweet chestnuts, but the surrounding area would have been far less structured, probably not far off the layout of Kew gardens today. His avenues radiated from the Great Pagoda, starting with the Japanese Cypress, Juniper and Yew Avenues created in 1867 followed by Thorn Avenue in 1868, Cedar Vista in 1871 (which still survives today), Acacia Avenue in 1872, Holly Walk in 1874 (which also survives) and Sweet Chestnut Avenue in 1880. Remnants from the original avenues that have disappeared, or have been forgotten, still exist.<<

Cannot find the background I used for this, and I agree it doesn't make sense. So here's a more sensible rewrite.

Charles Bridgeman. He also assisted in the designs at Blenheim Palace, and a garden at Marble Hill, as well as Richmond Gardens. He specialised in a less-rigid garden design being pursued in the Anglo-Dutch style than the formal styles of the day, and is credited with being the Founder of the English landscape movement. He is also believed to have popularised the use of sweet chestnuts in formal gardens, possibly demonstrated by the
avenue of sweet chestnuts at Kew. The surrounding area would have been far less structured, probably not far off the layout of Kew gardens today. His ideas were later represented in the avenues radiating from the Great Pagoda, starting with the Japanese Cypress, Juniper and Yew Avenues created in 1867 followed by Thorn Avenue in 1868, Cedar Vista in 1871 (which still survives today), Acacia Avenue in 1872, Holly Walk in 1874 (which also survives) and Sweet Chestnut Avenue in 1880. Remnants from the original avenues that have disappeared, or have been forgotten, still exist.

I hope that makes more sense, and doesn't overburden the entry with background on Charles Bridgeman.

Please advise or prune as necessary.

MMF

Thanks. I've been busy at home with personal problems, but I hope they are all sorted now. I'll try my best to give your project some time, as I don't think it needs a lot more work.

Gnomon, I know you have been busy.

My big concern is that most of what I've picked up on these entries has come from the Kew website, obviously, and I've re-written it in 'my' way, but please check it isn't plagiarised, or I'll have to do a complete re-write, which has been done a couple of times already.

Thank.

Oh! The link... http://www.kew.org/search/search?q=heritage+trees&partialfields=&x=0&y=0&sitesearch-term=ext_kew&getfields=section&entqr=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&btnG.y=13&btnG.y=12&btnG.y=3&client=kew_website_frontend&btnG.x=13&btnG.x=9&btnG.x=10&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=kew_website_frontend

and thanks for the work.

MMF

Hi MMF. I've a few more questions for you.

A80841440 English Oak

You say that the oak was used in depicting the boundary of the parish. Since the oak is central, how is it used in depicting the boundary?

A80841477 Holm Oak

"However, in the past, it was not used for timber, being ignored due to the English oak being the preferred lumber. Its use dates back to the Romans who used it for carts and wheels"

-- it's not clear whether that last bit "its use" and the subsequent paragraphs are about the English Oak or the Holm Oak.

A80841495 Lucombe Oak

You say that the oak was called wainscot oak because it was used for making panelling, but you also say that the panelling was called wainscotting because it was made from the oak. So which was named after which?

A80841693 Stone Pine

You say the cultivation of the seeds goes back half a million years. That's 500,000 years. How did you work that out? Humans haven't been around that long and weren't involved in agriculture until about 12,000 years ago.

A80841576 Tulip Tree

"are considered to be a better plant than the Liriodendron tulipifera"

- on what basis is one plant considered to be better than another?

A80841602 Caucasian Elm

In the first sentence you say it was planted in 1760. In the second sentence you say 1762.

A80841657 Oriental Plane

In some places you have Planus and in others Platanus. Are these both correct?

You also say it comes from "Palantine", but don't say what that is.

Thanks for taking the time, Gnomon.

So here goes.


The English oak.
>>You say that the oak was used in depicting the boundary of the parish. Since the oak is central, how is it used in depicting the boundary?<<
Although, for many parishes, the Oak, or Gospel oak, would be central to the parishioners (and in some areas would be replaced by a church or other religious building), oak trees where often found to mark the boundary of a parish, both because of their revered status, but also their longevity. However, marker-stones, streams and coppiced hedges would also mark the boundaries.
http://www.lynsted-society.co.uk/html/beating_the_bounds.html

So how about:-
>>One important part it played in many parishes was its use as a marker on the boundary of the parish, {or at least a focal point. This may well have been both due to their revered status, but also their longevity. However, marker-stones, streams and coppiced hedges would also mark the boundaries.} During the Rogation days, the three days preceding Ascension Day, the people of the parish would beat the bounds. This involved taking a willow wand, stripped of its bark, and walking the parish boundary beating known features that were at the boundary of the parish with the wand to fix that boundary in the parishioners' minds. This was to become a religious act, hence the term Rogation from rogare, Latin for beseech.

Holm oak.
>>"However, in the past, it was not used for timber, being ignored due to the English oak being the preferred lumber. Its use dates back to the Romans who used it for carts and wheels"<<
The English oak was far more prevalent than the Holm oak in Britain, being the ‘native’ oak following the last ice-age. It also provided a more robust, long-lasting timber than the Holm oak, being used in almost every area where wood could be used.

However Holm oak was used, where prevalent, for farming equipment, maybe because it was cheaper than the timber from the English Oak.

So how about:-
>>Its use can be dated back to the Romans who used it for carts and wheels, primarily due to its durability. {However, in Britain, the native English oak, being the prevalent timber tree in Britain, was always the preferred source for lumber. However it appears to have been used extensively in farming equipment where the holm oak was common in the area. This may be because it was less expensive than wood from the English oak, although this researcher couldn’t find definitive proof of this.}
The ancient Greeks revered the tree, not for its timber, but for its symbolism, {in much the same way as the English oak was revered in Britain}. Many parts of the tree were perceived to have a meaning or a purpose: the acorn was seen as a fertility symbol, often being turned into items of jewellery and ornaments, or imitations being incorporated into adornments to assist fertility. The leaves were used in divination, the art of telling the future, as well as being used as crowns of honour, similar to the use of laurel in wreaths by the Romans.<<

Lucombe oak
>>You say that the oak was called wainscot oak because it was used for making panelling, but you also say that the panelling was called wainscotting because it was made from the oak. So which was named after which?<<
Wainscot appears to have many possible derivations. The most popular appears to be from ‘wagenschot’, a dutch word for a wagon with wooden panelling, however wagenschot, in low German can be translated into best oak-wood, without knots. Using ‘An Etymology Dictionary of the English Language, by Walter W. Skeat, 1893”, wagen, in English, is wain and schot becomes shot.
However, this appears to be an etymological error and that the old Dutch waeg, a wall, and schot, a wooden covering, may be more accurate. There is also another old Dutch word, wandschot, wand being wall, and arising from wind, a form of wattled work. Obviously, this is too convoluted to put into the entry...

So how about:-
>>A wainscott is the generic name of a fine oak. It was often used for panelling on an interior wall, rising 3 - 5' (900 to 1500mm) from the floor to the dado rail. There is uncertainty as to how wainscot acquired its name. The common belief is it derives from old Dutch wagenschot, meaning a wagon with wooden panelling, but in low German this translates as best oak-wood, without knots. The most likely derivation this researcher can find, also from old Dutch, is waegschot, being formed from wall and wooden covering, or possibly wandschot, wand being wind, a form of wattle work. An Etymology Dictionary of the English Language, by Walter W. Skeat, 1893 <<

Stone Pine
<<You say the cultivation of the seeds goes back half a million years. That's 500,000 years. How did you work that out? Humans haven't been around that long and weren't involved in agriculture until about 12,000 years ago.<<
Oops! I’ve found links to prehistoric usage, but most references indicate 2,000 years, so best I go for that, I think.
So how about:-
>>The stone pine kernel is believed to have been used in prehistoric times, but has certainly been cultivated for 2,000 years, with evidence found at Pompeii, being preserved by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79AD. It was used for barter as well as nutrition.<<

Tulip tree
>>"are considered to be a better plant than the Liriodendron tulipifera"

Unfortunately, that quote was taken from Kew’s website which, in full reads ‘The Chinese tulip tree, Liriodendron chinense, a far superior species, wasn’t introduced until 1901 by Ernest Wilson.’ as per http://www.kew.org/plants/trees/tuliptree.html. I meant to follow this up and have, subsequently, found nothing to indicate why it is superior. In fact there is little on either plant to add.

Caucasian elm
>>In the first sentence you say it was planted in 1760. In the second sentence you say 1762.<<
Please use 1762, 1760 looks like an error.

Oriental plane
>>In some places you have Planus and in others Platanus. Are these both correct? <<

Please use Platanus, another typo.

As for Palantine, I’m still attempting to find my source. Back later. And thanks.

MMF

Hi MMF.

I just looking into this issue of the Pagoda Tree.

Styphnolobium japonicum vs Saphora Japonica

The Kew Website states that the tree is a Styphnolobium japonicum. What does the sign on the tree say?