h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Gran (from somebody else's Grandad),

Age or experience matters not here, I'm what they call a 'Silver Surfer', a combination of age, mishap and Medical Cock Up made me sit here, it was this or insanity ( I'm still trying to work out which way I took ).

We met, sort of on the Limerick page, of course you can join in and very welcome, but be warned - it can get very naughty and sometimes downright disgusting. It's based on the old idea of Limericks where a group of people ( usually drunk!) gathered round and one would speak the first line - followed on by No2 etc, until all five lines were complete, failure probably meant that you bought the next round, but we don't do that. The member completing the last line HAS to start the next one, so have one in mind if you think of a good last line. Any turn is up for grabs, just go when you feel like it, if it happens that two people put a line in at the same time, (what we call a simpost [simultaneous posting]) the second one displayed usually withdraws, just say withdrawn, go with-------- the is just to say that it's not part of the scheme of things.

Are you familiar with Smileys? - you will see a lot on the site
like these , if you click on that one it will take you to a site where they all are, all you have to do is print off the page (in draft black and white, or you will use all your colour cartridge) and when you feel that one is appropriate in your text just type in the bit in the third column EXACTLY ie <------>, it will come up as your chosen smiley, it works on any part of the web pages.

Welcome, good luck, have fun, that's what it's all about, there is another page called 'each post a limerick' but be warned that can get very crude and sometimes a bit sick, I've had a bit of a moan about it at times and I certainly am not a shrinking violet.

Hope this helps you to enjoy the experience, I'm sorry if I'm telling you things you already know.
Cheers, Oggie

P.S. This whole website can be a bit cranky, sometimes when you log on it doesn't take you to the last posting and you insert something which is appropriate for what you see but it might happen that that post was six months ago, YOUR contribution however will appear as the last posting and have everybody going . You will see what looks like a cascade of green (at least they are on my comp.) marbles - the bottom one on the right always shows the last posting, if you can't see it be careful - you might go into a time warp!!!.

The whole concept is based on The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy which is about as zany a concept as you can get - go for it.

I'm re-doing my home space at the moment, it was about as boring as desert so there's not much to look at.

Hello Oggie

Great to hear from you and thank you for your tips, some of which I knew and some I didn't.

I work with 6 other women in the company of 175 men, starting at 0500 in the morning (i.e. , , , men) who do not hold back when expressing themselves! I am used to crudity, profanity and rudeness so I think the limerick page will actually be a doddle after that, but thanks for the warning!

A Silver Surfer, eh, well I will be joining that band in about 3 years time, at the moment I only get on-line occasionally and usually courtesy of the works computer, because this one is so slow.

I look forward to hearing from you again, either here or through the limerick page.

Take care, Happy Sunday

Universal Granny

Ooh, is the limerick page still going?

Hi Tefkat,
there is (A) limerick page on the go called 'New game anyone', which leads me to believe that it may not be the original, 1st posting by ORCUS on March 13, 2001, suggests that the last one petered out, latest posting is 9460+, this is (supposed) to be line by line contributions but frequently goes haywire - what the heck!, it's supposed to be fun, come and join or re-join as the case may be, I think some kind of postings record is being attempted.

There is also another page called 'each post a Limerick' which is complete verses, tending to have a follow on type theme, gets a bit disgusting sometimes.

Don't know how to do the links thingy but if you go to my space you should be able to navigate from there and claim your place.

Look forward to crossing swords, Oggie

Hi Oggie

Thanks for the help.
I think I was involved in the original limerick page, before the site went offline for the BBC takeover and I remember Orcus starting it up again when we came back, but I kind of lost track at some point.

Your telling me the name of the thread was a great help.
According to the list on my space I last posted to it on May 2, 2002.

About time for another look I should think.

Manyana, manyana. (Today I'm supposed to be packing )

Just passing - you OK?

Had a little chat to BFM a couple of nights ago, I enjoy crossing swords with you and him on the Limerick page and thought I would look up his space. I still can't get used to the fact that I can chat to people all over the world on this site. The concept of a Limerick being devised by (possibly) five different people in five different countries... the mind boggles.

I hope you are OK and was not put off by my assertions that I can cope with profanity, it all sounds a bit cocky on my side, now I re-read it, sorry. I suppose it's a sort of defence. I was brought up in a non-swearing family and in my teen and early twenties years I would be reduced to tears if I even so much as heard a swear word, but I'm afraid this place has hardened me to that, and I think that is a shame.

Can I ask - what happened to your neck? Are you fully recovered from that now? You don't sound as though you had a good time at all. I am genuinely interested, so if you feel like telling me I promise not to "go off on one" again!!

Take care, Universal Granny

Hi Gran,
Thanks for the wishes, sorry I didn't reply straight away but the seems to have been a few postings lately and because the conversations are listed chronologically this disappeared below my screen, I'll have to be more careful checking my space,sorry again.

I have no problem talking about the neck, my problem is called Cervical Spinal Myelopathy and results from compression of the spinal cord in the neck by a ruptured and protruding disc which has the effect of crushing the cord.

The vertebrae in the neck are numbered C (cervical)1/2/3etc from the top, C1/2 & C2/3 don't have discs, they are the ones which allow the head to 'pan and tilt' like a camera tripod top.

The most common cause of this complaint is protrusion of the discs between C4/5 & C5/6, this causes weakness of the arms and tingling fingers, the disc between C3/4 almost never causes a problem because it's above the natural bend of the neck and doesn't get a great deal of wear EXCEPT DUE TO INJURY, and I've had a few of those.

I began to lose the use of my legs about 2 and a half years ago and every cause under the Sun was looked at except the neck, because I didn't have the 'classic' symptoms of arm weakness, actually, I did but didn't realise it.

An M.R.I. scan showed the damage, the disc C3/4 had stuck right out and reduced the cord to about half it's normal size, killing the cells, C4/5 had also gone and I had no option but to have them both out and the vertebrae fused with bone from my hip. By this time I was almost immobile from the waist down, lets face it if you put an elastic band round your finger and left it for a couple of years what would it be like?.

It's about a year since the op and with Physio I have some use back in my legs, one thing which works to my advantage is that the cord at this point is still grey brain cells and they can be re-trained to divert past a damaged area, like they do with a Stroke. It could of course have gone the other way but I try not to think about that. I'm already ahead of the recovery target so I'm well pleased, I have to accept though that I'll never walk unaided again. Better off than some though, that's how I try to see it.

Stay well, Oggie,

Oggie, what were your symptoms? Did you have sciatica and pain in the hip and pelvis at all?

And is the op very painful? Does it take long to recover? Do they use a general anaesthetic? Is it worth it?

Does the formication stop?

Hi Tefkat,
You seem to have a bit of an interest, do you have the problem or someone you know?. No problem, if I can help I'm more than happy to do so. You must understand however that everybody is different and although I didn't want to go on about it, I had other problems as well, like advanced Osteo-arthritis in both hips and Lumbar Spine but I could cope with those and a few pain killers.

That rather negates one of you questions, yes I had pelvic and hip pain, but I had that before I started with the leg weakness, it's my understanding that very little pain is involved except for a sore neck (the site of the damage) the sort of pain you get if you've been driving with the car window open on a chilly day and you would say you had a 'stiff neck' especially when you tried to turn your head. I suffered that sort of pain on and off for 20 years or more, I was X-Rayed for Arthritis BUT THIS WONT SHOW UP ON X-RAY, it's a gristly protrusion and needs an M.R.I. scan. It can take years to develop from an initial injury. When I look back with the benefit of hindsight there were several things which pointed to something being wrong, like legs feeling like lead and unco-ordinated accompanied by dizzy spells, I was in a stressful occupation and put it down to that, a panic attack sort of thing, driving along, an arm or a leg would suddenly 'jerk' for no apparent reason, all these things make sense now but I just wrote them off.

I first relised that something was seriously wrong when my right leg became very weak, to the point where I couldn't lift the toes to put my ankle down first as you would normally walk and started to 'plod', it felt permanantly cold although it was warm to the touch and eventually it wouldn't support me, after a very short time the left leg started to go the same way. As far as I can see that's one of the main differences between Myelopathy and Neuropathy (toxic effects such as drugs or alcohol) which tend to effect all parts or sides equally. No particular pain associated with it, just a numb, cold feeling almost as if it wasn't there at all.

Next thing to go was the insides (to put it delicately), I was never incontinent but I suffered what is termed 'urgency' as regards the water department which is difficult when you can hardly move the legs, I certainly couldn't hold on for more that half a minute. The other department was the exact opposite, I would go for two or three days without moving but there was no feeling, I couldn't strain, I couldn't feel any response, I think the digestive system went to pot as well, I had no appetite and lost some 90pounds in as many days.

I now know that these are danger signs:-
Loss of Bladder/Bowel control (either incontinence or
retention).
Severe weight loss.
(In addition of course to the loss of use of the legs)

I never felt the crawling Ant thing, Formication as you correctly call it, however, my skin became very sensitive to touch to the point where even pulling up my underclothes would cause the legs to go into a severe retractor spasm and the legs would buckle, thats another sign of severe spinal damage whatever the cause, the automatic reactions become heightened and produce violent and very painful exaggerated stretching or cramps, ie, a normal Knee reflex test can produce something similar to a Karate kick! even though you can not consciously move the leg. That's why I resorted to a wheelchair, it was the only safe way of getting around, I had one or two falls and my biggest fear was breaking an arm or collar bone, that would really have messed it up. One of the most distressing aspects of it was trying to sleep, the legs would go into violent knee jerk spasms for no apparent reason.

Some Spinal operations, particularly on the lower back can be carried out with the patient awake using a Spinal Block anaesthetic but not this one, it's too difficult. Entry is usually anterior, ie, though the front which is logical if you think about it - the cord is in the way going in through the back, it's a fairly small cut where the neck and chin blend together and the windpipe etc pulled to one side - veins muscles and nerves pulled to the other which gives a clear go at the vertebrae, the discs are then removed with something like a Dentists burr with wedges inserted to maintain the spacing, a hole slightly bigger than the gap is then drilled leaving a half moon in the ends of each bone for the insertion of graft bone plugs which can be either artificial, cadaver, or live bone harvested from the pelvis, my surgeon preferred the latter and I agreed, it seemed more natural and seems to 'take' better, it does however mean two simultaneous operations but the pelvic one doesn't cause a problem except for the pain of stitches which soon passes

Operation last for 2 hours plus, in my case it was 4 hours but I had a two level de-compression and I have a very short neck which makes life difficult for the Surgeon, after an overnight stay in High Dependency or Recovery you normally return to the Ward and go home within 72 hours if you are a walking patient, I stayed a couple of days longer due to my immobility, very little pain requiring nothing more than Paracetamol. A neck brace is required to reduce neck movement and assist with the bone healing which can be a bit uncomfortable in hot weather but after a couple of weeks it can be removed for restful periods, it's better to do that so that the muscles keep their tone. It's surprising how stable the grafts are, it will take some really stupid action to dislodge them. Gradually spend more time out of the brace - the grafts will be X-rayed after 6-8 weeks and the brace discarded. Neck will have reduced turning capacity but you soon get used to that.

Is it worth doing?. In my case I didn't have a choice, it would have got worse and probably ended up as quadraplegia or worse. If anyone has the problem developing then time is of the essence, any damage done needs to be treated as a stroke injury and will never completely recover, if done in time it should lead to a resumption of almost normal activity. I have to take a muscle relaxant to counteract the heightened muscle tone and allow me to move my legs but my case if fairly severe, it might not be the case for everyone, apart from not walking I have a fair quality of life, you just have to re-adjust to the circumstances.

A word of warning!!!! sometimes the condition goes into respite after a few weeks, mine did and I used to joke 'they had better be quick and find out what's wrong, otherwise it will have cured itself', DONT BE FOOLED, it does that, it tends to shrink back and then come out again with a vengeance.

Hope this answers your questions, if not you're welcome to come back anytime

There's a good site at www.Spine-health.com

Cheers, Oggie.

Thanks Oggie.

One of the aspects that concerns me is that I have read posts from people who say their larynxes were permanently damaged and on the other hand there is more risk of damage to the cord if the surgeon goes in from the back.
As a singer (with a range of over three octaves)(and also as someone who constantly gets compliments about her speaking voice - and not much else, believe me) I'd be inclined to say I'd rather end up paralysed than voiceless, but the incontinence would be unbearable .

I do understand that everyone is different Oggie but the more people I listen to the more ammunition I have/more informed questions I can ask them.

The reason I butted in so rudely was that you mentioned that the neck caused the leg problems but no arm symptoms and I'm having a lot of trouble getting them to connect the two. The specialists that have been asked to look at the legs tell me "We're not interested in our neck - that's not why you were sent here" and the ones for the neck say the same about the legs and pelvic pain.

The rheumatologists claim it's probably the spinal damage or the hormones causing the problems, the neurosurgeon refuses to consider anything below the waist and the endocrinologist just throws tablets at the situation ("Try these for six months to a year and we'll see if they have any effect" )

One of the reasons they claim the lower back problems can't be caused by the neck is that they predate the neck symptoms by about 20 years, but neither the MRI scan on the lumbar spine nor the hip and pelvis x-rays showed sufficient damage to cause them. The fact that your neck affected your legs so badly without upper body symptoms is something I can point out to them.

Gotta . Impatient Hubby. Back soon...

Hi Tefkat,
It's never rude to ask and you're welcome anyway, you say about LUMBAR M.R.I. not CERVICAL, I had a full body scan and was called back for a second look at the neck, they can do a thing, I think it's called Saggital weighting where they send the scanner in a different direction and it gives a totally different picture, it's like 45 degree angles, it was on that where the damage showed up really well and it was frightening.

We had to battle through about six Doctors to get any sense and it was a chance remark to an elightened Lady Doctor by my long suffering Wife which did the trick, they don't want to listen, I said 'look, I've lived in this apology for a body for 56 years and I know roughly how it works - what they are saying doesn't add up!!!!!!' she agreed and we went from there.

Personally I wouldn't choose paralysis, you wont be able to sing or speak anyway, that's just my opinion. Anyway, there's all the rest of it, leg ulcers and no independance, even for the 'smelly bits', that's just my opinion, I'd rather have some dignity.

Don't have nightmares, Cheers, Oggie

Hi again Tefkat,
when I re-read my last posting this morning I realised I've missed a point or two.

As regards the voice box, they warned me that I might be a bit croaky for a day or two, I have a Bass voice to start with, it was a long and difficult op because of my short neck and I didn't even have a sore throat afterwards, lets face it people die having teeth extracted so be wary about putting too much emphasis on what you hear, people have a habit of only repeating misery or some never miss a chance to put somebody down. My grumbles about Doctors are based on fact, alright, I'm speaking in hindsight but if I realised it didn't add up surely some of them should have thought the same way, if you add two and two and only get three then something is wrong isn't it?.

You say you have pelvic and lumbar pain, well so did I but it was nothing to do with the neck - I had Arthritis in both, you say the at least one Doctor blames it on Hormones, I know they can cause lots of problems, ask my Wife, you don't divulge your age but obviously hormones are suspect.

Who's to say that you don't have all those problems AND cervical spinal compression as well, I did, (except for the hormones) they only have the right to say that after it's been checked with a Neck M.R.I., Nerve conductivity/continuity tests and all that stuff. Even if it proves groundless you will feel ten times better for knowing THAT.

Stick with it and stay cheerful, Oggie

Oh yes Oggie. The first MRI scan, on the neck, nearly three years ago, showed a couple of damaged discs, osteophytes, compression...

They have me on the waiting list for a discectomy and fusion (with cow bone and titanium - moo, beep, click).

Unfortunately, though my ESR has been incredibly high since they first started testing it, 5 or 6 years ago, none of the other blood tests the rheumatologists have tried have ever shown anything so they say the hip/pelvis/lumbar/sciatic pain, numbness, weakness, tingling etc aren't caused by either the cervical damage or by arthritis and if you don't have an obvious reason for pain they tend not to believe in it.

Had a bone scan a few weeks ago but I bet that shows nowt either

I haven't been pushing because I'm not terribly sure about the op ('tis a big step and I've had my symptoms so long I've learnt to live with most of them - except that dangnabbitted formication ) but if that's what's causing the problems lower down (and the dizziness) it's obviously gonna need doing pretty soon.

I'm 42. Ten years ago the GP told me "It's just your age".
3 years ago the neurosurgeon's letter recommending an urgent operation just got filed and it was only rediscovered because I found out they DO use traction in this country (the rheumatologist had insisted they don't) and went to ask for some and (luckily) the new GP read the notes...

The trouble is I have so many different symptoms, in so many different places they tend to assume I'm just a hypochondriac. Any connections I can bring to their attention are a great help.

Hi Tefkat,
I'm getting a bit puzzled by the response you're getting, I have no medical qualifications at all but I've done extensive research into the problem as it affected me, and my life's work involved logic, research and investigation, sounds to me like your Doctors should all get together in a room and decide who says what about which problem, I wonder if they would know!

We all know that Hormones can drive anybody crazy, men, women, children, unfortunately women seem to get the rough end of them in later life. I would have thought that if that was the simple answer they would have arrived at a conclusion by now and devised some form of treatment to at least make it bearable.

I do not understand how it can be that you have a consistently high Sed.Rate with no other signs of rheumatic disease and yet they haven't found out WHY, surely that warrants some explanation - what is causing it?. I had a look on a website about ESR and the people who make the equipment give warnings about mis-readings, if it isn't done exactly right it can give a VERY misleading result.

I can understand the hormone thing and the formication, the classic causes seem to be hormones or substance abuse, particularly Coke, but it's a nerve ending response and might have other causes, can they say for definate, I wouldn't have thought bone density would be an issue unless you started Meno a long,long time ago.

That's only my musings, what really surprises me is that you say they seem to write off weakness and tingling as nothing to do with Cervical Spinal Myelopathy when you have already had an M.R.I which shows compression, the cord is compressed inside a fluid filled sheath and that trauma wont show up on ANY blood test, believe me, I had hundreds, trying to sort my problem out and none of them indicated spine trouble.

I know the op is a worry but it sounds as though it's inevitable or suffer the consequences, if it cures some of the problem (which it almost certainly will) then you can tackle the rest with at least that out of the way, and as they say "And this too will pass"

To quote the Surgeon who did mine "chin up" (he too had a sense of humour)
Oggie.

No, they're writing off the sciatica and pelvic pain as having nowt to do with the neck. It's OK - I'm used to it - when I was 11 they said it was adhesions from the appendectomy, a few years later they misdiagnosed it as blocked fallopian tubes and a couple of years after that they called it stress and prescribed tranquillisers (tranquilisers/tranquillizers? <wibble&gt.

I'm just pleased they're not always right - 5 years ago they said if I didn't start behaving and take the NSAIDS like a good girl I'd be in a wheelchair within two years. Well I'm not

Hi Tefkat,(and other variations thereof),

Long time no speak, I gather from looking around the site that you had the Neckoptomy, or are you not speaking to me now, after all I did encourage you to have it done and feel a bit responsible.

I don't expect that you will notice an immediate improvement in mobility but I am thoughtful of how you feel, it's not pain free I know but hopefully you will have fared well, I found that the worst pain was the hip wound, the rest of it is only terror that your head will fall off,(not a big problem in my case).

Love to know how you're doing.

Couldn't log into the new system so re-entered as mcOggie

hi oggie

short message - more tomorrow

been lying awake for over 2 hours 'cos can't get comfy with the neck pain but can't get out of bed eiyher so can't really reach keyboard = trying hard to remembr where letters are

the hip is the worst thing really

armx seem better

neck - not sure if worse

Hi Tefkat,

thanks for your reply, I was beginning to wonder what they had done to you.

I know it's miserable for the first few weeks, they fitted me with one of those Velcro fastening braces for day wear but I had to wear a soft collar at night, I expect it's the same for you. I found that it wasn't the neck cut which caused the pain it was the bl&&dy collar, once you get rid of that you will have a different outlook.

It will make you feel better just to know that there isn't something strangling your nerves any more.

The hip cut always hurts every time you try to move, we all have big muscles in that area and when you move it pulls on the wound but that is usually the first problem to go away, it won't be long before it's just a pink red line and a memory, if you go 'skinny dipping' you can always have a single red Rose tattooed over it, (not that I'm a fan of tattooes, but I'm sure they have their place, how about a small Butterfly on the Neck ???? ) but leave it for a while, my Neck scar is only about half an inch long now, not even big enough for a bloke to boast about.

Don't expect you to write great tomes but it's good to hear how you are, one thing about using your own bits and pieces, it heals quicker - how long before you can walk on a broken leg - 6 weeks?, should be well taken already and well set before Christmas, Turkey, Pud and loads of

I wont pester you all the time, big Oggie.