h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Howdy Della, how goes it ??

Not too brilliant at the moment. People are monitoring my conversations (as I think you know) and popping up to 'comment,' I don't feel safe to stay so I'll just 'lurk' (I believe it's called) for a while. Cheerio, as Aunt Daisy (old radio personality) no doubt said...

I must admit that, even if the arguments of the people who posted earlier were valid, the fact that they are following you around (this was posted in my conversation forum, after all) does significantly weaken their merit...

Your right Tanzen in my haste to correct the deceitful, things that Della was saying I forgot my manners and gate crashed your journal. It was rude and Iam sorry.

In futue I will try to answer Dellas' revisionist distortions in a less obtrusive way.

Sorry.

one love

Ok

I am not entirely sure of what dispute you have with Della and Apparition. The fact that I never got into it with Della should be proof enough that it's not something I want to get involved in.

I know people fight in here. I have, on one occassion, gotten involved in an argument with an individual that became a little more personal than I would have wished...but I firmly believe that the fight was one between that person and myself. They are friends with friends of mine, and that is something I accept...as far as I was concerned it was not anything to do with my friends, and felt no need to pit them against each other, so to speak.

What has been causing me growing concern is that, in the last few months, there have been 3 instances (this one included) where people I do not know have contacted me with what seemed to be the sole purpose of tainting the friendships I have made whilst a part of hootoo.

Now, I accept that, with the number of people in here, and the varying backgrounds and personalities of people, there are bound to be cases of people arguing and fighting.

What I find difficult to accept is that so many people seem intent on involving me in arguments that have nothing to do with me.

Why can't we all just be friends?

"Why can't we all just be friends?"

Ask Death-threat Della that question, why don't you?

I can't speak for blickybadger, but the reason I somewhat rudely intruded here was because Della was bleating to you that she didn't know how she'd got involved in the latest unpleasantness. I hate to see nice people lied to - and she was lying to you to make herself look better.

I understand your not wanting to get involved, but responsibility for that, as with so much else, lies with Death-threat Della for
(a) bringing it up here and
(b) lying about it.

And here's the interesting thing - if she'd only done (a), I'd never have commented here, and I doubt blicky would have either. To paraphrase Bill Clinton:

IT'S THE LYING, STUPID.

So, yes, to an extent, I am "monitoring" what Della says here. I believe I have good reason to, because of the numerous occasions in the past when I've caught her out lying about me and others "behind their backs", i.e. in conversation threads we're not subscribed to.

Della finds it irritating that I then pop up and expose her persistent lies. What she doesn't seem to understand, even now, even after repeated, tiresome explanations, is that she could stop me doing that very, very easily by simply NOT LYING. This is something she appears to have difficulty with as a concept, and as long as that continues, I'll continue correcting her.

To reiterate - I only "pop up" like this where Death-threat Della has deliberately LIED. If she stops doing that, I'll stop popping up. Seems straightforward enough to me.

Ok, I'm actually on my way out now, and will not be able to give this the full attention it deserves. Hopefully I will get a chance to redress this tomorrow morning.

In the meantime I would like to make three quick points that I hope someone will be able to address for me, as they are the three that have been causing me the most concern...

1) Della is a friend of mine. I'm trying to make a point that I don't want to get involved and you are calling her names. Not only do I think that is rude to Della, I also consider it disrespectful to me. If you want to argue with her, I don't know why you would have to do it here.

2) I find the fact that someone is following her around and reading all of the conversations she is involved in a little creepy. And I also think that it weakens any arguments you have against her when someone (when I say someone I mean at least one of the three people who have posted on this thread that I do not know) is "stalking"...if I knew that someone was following me around and reading everything I read, regardless of its content or our personal relationship, I would consider it a breach or privacy, and further disrespect. And someone obviously is following her around and reading her posts, because this thread is in my journal, not hers.

3) Della had been vague about the situation. If she had named names, given reference to specifics in the arguments or posted links, I could almost understand your need to defend yourself. In fact, before you guys had posted on here, I had no idea who the argument was with, or why.

It just gives me the impression that you are more keen on sullying Della's reputation than you are defending your own...

Like I said before, I don't want to get involved in any arguments, especially any arguments that have nothing to do with me whatsoever. And I would greatly appreciate it if you could please respect that.

"In the meantime I would like to make three quick points that I hope someone will be able to address for me"

OK. I'll address them, such as I can.

"1) Della is a friend of mine. I'm trying to make a point that I don't want to get involved and you are calling her names."

I am not "calling her names" (unless you mean "Death-threat Della"...). I am pointing out disingenuous lies. That is hardly the same thing.

"Not only do I think that is rude to Della, I also consider it disrespectful to me. If you want to argue with her, I don't know why you would have to do it here."

I don't see an argument going on here. I've simply stated some facts. Arguing with them, if Della chooses to, would be pointless.

"2) I find the fact that someone is following her around and reading all of the conversations she is involved in a little creepy."

I find the fact that someone is lying about a situation I've been involved in in a thread I'm not subscribed to a little creepy. One might described it as tattling behind someone's back, if it wasn't happening in public.

"And I also think that it weakens any arguments you have against her when someone (...) is "stalking"..."

I don't see how. Facts are facts. Isaac Newton was an appalling snob with a foul temper, and Einstein was a philanderer. Do you think those facts affect theories of gravitation in any way?

"if I knew that someone was following me around and reading everything I read, regardless of its content or our personal relationship, I would consider it a breach or privacy"

How is it possible for it to be a breach of privacy to read something someone has written on a public forum???

If you want a private conversation, there's email, or the phone, or a letter. H2G2 is a public forum - that's how it works. I had thought everyone here knew that.

"someone obviously is following her around and reading her posts, because this thread is in my journal, not hers."

Well, yes - I've found her lying about me before, and I don't like it. I consider it disrespectful, if you like. I also consider it my *right* to correct such deliberate lies wherever I find them. If she brings those lies to your journal, I suggest you take that up with her.

"3) Della had been vague about the situation."

Has it occurred to you to wonder why? She was vague because she wished to give you the impression that she had been wronged.

Her son impersonated someone else, and she then "Officially" demanded the victim of the impersonation be banned from using this site. She then went on to "seriously" - her word - threaten to have him killed.

Have a think about why someone might want to be vague in their description of such a situation to a friend.

"If she had named names, given reference to specifics in the arguments or posted links, I could almost understand your need to defend yourself."

If she'd given specifics, and you cared at all for truth, I doubt you'd be defending her at all.

"Like I said before, I don't want to get involved in any arguments"

And like I said - there's no argument over the *facts*.

I'll leave you to think about that.

I wasnt trying to break up any friendship.

1.
My post was addresssed mostly to Della, the sections meant personally for you and the links were specifically to show that my post was not some kind of counter attack but an attempt at shedding an honest light onthe situation.

If you do not wish to read something simply do not read it.

You are right though I should have been briefer in my original posting to be less intrusive.

2.
I find the fact that someone is following her around and reading all of the conversations she is involved in a little creepy.

Thats a little odd considering we're on a public site. I have been corrected by others and corrected others. On a public site or in any medium for that matter I fimd it slightly more worrying and creepy that inaccuraies and blatan lies go uncorrected.

And I also think that it weakens any arguments you have against her when someone

I dont have arguments against Della, only what she sometimes chooses to say. If in the way I say it I end up looking bad that is unfortunate, but its not a popularity contest for me its all about honesty.

And someone obviously is following her around and reading her posts, because this thread is in my journal, not hers.

It also appears in Della's convo list.

3.
I do think that anyone who visited Askh2g2, the most popular place on here might be able to get a good idea of who Della was refering to in her diliberately revisionist posts.

It just gives me the impression that you are more keen on sullying Della's reputation than you are defending your own...

Actually Im concerned about the reputation of everyone involved as is one of the other people Della rgularly slanders. We have both posted advice about to Della about her inappropriate use of language, disrespectful tone and tendency to see counter points as out and out attacks.

I am aware of how all this *can* look but no matter if Della chooses to ignore sound advice I still feel it necessary to refute any of the BS she continues to insist on posting. Thats what I have chosen to make my problem I guess, but in future I will try not to make it yours.

one love

Yes, it is a public forum, much like the streets are public streets...

...and we were having a private conversation, much as two people in the street would have a private conversation...

...and you were following Della around listening to everything she said to everyone...

...it may be something you are able to do, but I still think it impolite. I personally don't like the thought that there are people wondering around in my space and listening in on converastions I'm having with friends.

The last thing I want to do is get involved in an argument I have no knowledge of, especially with people I don't know. Della had told me that Apparition had left because he had been having some problems with some people (she never said with whom or why)...we then went on to talk about the weather...

If it was the main topic of discussion, I could understand your need to defend yourself, but not only were names not mentioned, but that topic was closed...

I have to admit that three people I've never met before jumping into my space with the sole purpose of airing grievances with my friends to be a little intimidating, is all...and all I was doing was trying to have a conversation...

Hi, Tanzen - just dropping in to say hello, then off again - I don't want to cause any trouble! Thanks for your friendliness...

Hey Della

Please don't apologise, we were only chatting !

Help! This computer is not workingand I cannot say anything except "Hi!" Maybe it will work better tomorrow.

Help! This computer is not working and I cannot say anything except "Hi!" Maybe it will work better tomorrow.

I've been having problems with mine today at work...in technology.......

tanzen:

"Yes, it is a public forum, much like the streets are public streets...

...and we were having a private conversation, much as two people in the street would have a private conversation..."

This is just me, but if I wanted to have a private conversation, I wouldn't do it in the street. Street = not private.

"...and you were following Della around listening to everything she said to everyone..."

You fail - again - to consider *why* someone would feel it necessary to do such a thing. Do you recognise at any level the responsibility Della has in this?

"...it may be something you are able to do, but I still think it impolite."

Do you consider it impolite to threaten to kill someone?
Do you consider it impolite to call someone a liar, when they are not?
Do you consider it impolite to lie about people and situations behind their back?

I'm just trying to gauge your standards here to see whether you're being in any way fair.

"I personally don't like the thought that there are people wondering around in my space and listening in on converastions I'm having with friends."

I personally don't like the thought that there are people wondering, or indeed wandering, around h2g2 lying about me and situations involving me. Am I supposed to simply tolerate that so that you can talk about the weather?

"The last thing I want to do is get involved in an argument I have no knowledge of"

Once again, I suggest you take that up with Della. If she hadn't brought it up here, I wouldn't have said anything. Do you understand this point?

"... that topic was closed..."

A topic, as far as I am concerned, is not closed if lies have been left uncorrected.

"I have to admit that three people I've never met before jumping into my space with the sole purpose of airing grievances with my friends to be a little intimidating"

Once again, may I respectfully suggest you take it up with Della. There was no grievance here until she started her "poor me, I've no idea why this happened" schtick, again.

And for Della - if you don't lie, I won't correct you. Do you understand?

I think you've made your point- is it really necesary to stay here and continue the argument? PArticulaerly with someone whop has actively stated that she is not involved in the dispute between Della and blickybadger,a nd has noi wish to be?

"Do you consider it impolite to threaten to kill someone?
Do you consider it impolite to call someone a liar, when they are not?
Do you consider it impolite to lie about people and situations behind their back?"

Yes, I think all three could be considered impolite.

But I don't see how bombarding the space of someone who has no idea what is going on (and no desire to know) helps to mend any ills that you feel have been done to you.

Like I have said previously...before you guys jumped in and started this whole thing I had no idea who you were, or what your relationship was to Apparition's leaving...Della had said he was gone, I said I had heard he was having troubles (again, only vaguely) and after a little while it was over...no names were mentioned, no specifics were entered into, no one was defamed or libelled in here...

...all I wanted was to say goodbye to a friend and have a friendly conversation, now I have people ganging up on me because they have problems with the company I keep.

I don't mind admitting that I don't enjoy this at all...every time this conversation comes to the top of my list I feel this weight in the pit of my stomach...but I will not run away from my own personal space simply because a couple of people have decided to make a point (continually and then some) that they do not like the people I talk to.

I am not asking you to. All I am asking is for a bit of peace and a pleasant conversation with someone I know. And I don't understand why I can't have that in my own space...

tanzen:

I'm not "ganging up". What I say, I say for me and nobody else. Unless something DEMANDS a response, this will be my last post.

However, and for the last time, I really have to say you should take this up with Della. If Apparition wanted to say goodbye, he could - his account hasn't been closed or anything, and he's a grownup. That's not what happened, though. Della started this thread with cryptic references to what had gone on, and then said:

"we all have no idea how we got involved in the first place!"

This "poor me, why are people picking on me" attitude is the problem here. Della knows damn well how she got involved. She has further chosen to involve you. If you don't want to be - TELL HER. If you want to talk to Apparition - do so, he's still a member of h2g2. If he chooses not to respond, that's his affair.

It's a pity you don't like what's going on here. With any luck, Della's behaviour will improve, and correction of her lies and disingenuous "poor baby" behaviour will no longer be necessary. Let's hope.