h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I created a Gaudete Singers website last night, but I haven't got any content to put in it. Have you anything you could give me?

http://www.iol.ie/~jonmca/Gaudete/gaudete8.html

I plan to buy the www.gaudetesingers.com address for it later today.

That looks good. I'm fairly new (three years?) to Gaudete, so I don't know the early history, other than that they were conducted by Andrew Johnstone for a while. John Barnes would have the archives. I think they were founded by Martin Cunningham, but he actually had to leave a few years ago due to work pressure (department of Spanish in UCD?).

It appears that the Taverner Sanctus is not from the Western Wind Mass at all. So they're going to see can they find the real music. Hope you didn't spend too much time working on rewriting it.

I am getting the correct piece from John and may have it ready for Monday week. Won't be back from Buenos Aires till Tuesday.

I learned a number of Greek Bouzouki Scales while in Greece, and most of them have Turkish names. Apparently they are Turkish scales which have been modified to fit on the equal-tempered fretted bouzouki.

So then I got looking into Turkish scales, and found that the Ottoman Turks had an elegant system of temperament: they divided the octave into 53 equal steps called commas. 22 of these are almost exactly a perfect fourth (within 40 parts per million) and 31 of them make a perfect fifth (also within 40 parts per million).

The fourths and fifths were then divided up into intervals of 4, 5, 8, 9 and 12 commas, which correspond to our Pythagorean semitone, just intonation semitone, minor whole tone, major whole tone and an interval which we haven't got. Scales can then be made up with mixtures of these:

9, 9, 4, 9, 9, 9, 4 (equivalent to Pythagorean major scale)
9, 8, 5, 9, 9, 8, 5 (very close to our Just Intonation major)
5, 12, 5, 9, 5, 8, 9

and so on.

Very interesting, and I think the only person on h2g2 who would have a clue about this is you.

That is very interesting indeed. I remember seeing a Turkish saz with unrecognisable fret-placings; must have been a selection from that.

The comma being a 53rd of an octave would be around a quarter of a semitone, more or less the pythagorean comma.

That third scale would be like a harmonic minor, starting on the dominant. Used in movies to suggest the mysterious middle east, north Africa, the Sheik of Araby.

I had composition lessons from Archie Potter once in the RIAM, back in the sixties. He was a major provider of arrangements for the RTÉ Concert Orchestra. He told me "The harmonic minor scale is used for melodic effects. The melodic minor is used for harmonic effects."

Spot on.

The Turkish 5, 12, 5 comes into Greek music as D, Eb, F#, G which is very, very common in Greek music. The scale is called the Hijaz scale and it the most common one after the Major scale.

Ah, I see now what you mean now about the harmonic minor on the dominant.

Can you look up 'pipe and toke' for me in the OED? I'm not familiar with the word 'toke' and online references all give it as recent American slang. Would it be a word or phrase that an Oxford don would have used in the 1940s?

The earliest citation for 'toke' as the verb 'to smoke' in OED is

1952 Amer. Speech 27 30 Toke v., to smoke a cigarette; to take a puff of a cigarette.

It has other meanings as a noun, the oldest being Victorian (a lump of low quality bread), but the earliest smoking one is from 1968 and exclusively connected with marijuana.

As to whether an Oxford don of the 40s would know it, he just seemed to know all the words there were.

But my original reading of Pippin Took didn't rely on 'toke'. it was just (to me) a contraction of 'pipe and tobacco'.

Took and Tuck appear in OED meaning (among others) a rapier. Pippin appears (among other things) as 'a faint-hearted person' so that may have been the association Tolkien made (if any).

I confess I was looking out for a pipe-and-tobacco candidate, and Pippin seemed near enough...

I don't think any of the Tooks were faint-hearted. They all have names that suggest either wolves or crusaders (Isengrim, Haldigrim, Paladin, Fortinbras, Bandobras, Peregrin).

I think your "Pipe and Tobacco" suggestion is a good one. Pippin was certainly just as interested in tobacco as Merry was. While it was Merry who discussed the subject with King Theoden, it was Pippin who loaned his tobacco pouch to Saruman and then complained when he didn't get it back.

How about adding this paragraph to the entry?

"Although Tolkien invented the word 'hobbit' without any idea as to what it meant, he appears to have associated it with the words 'hobby' and 'habit'. Hobbits are prone to all the practices of an English gentleman which could be described as either hobbies or bad habits depending on whether you approve or not. Tolkien even gave his hobbits names to suggest which 'habit' they represent. So we have Merry Brandybuck suggesting someone who drinks a lot and likes fine spirits. Pippin Took suggests pipe and tobaccoIt's unlikely Tolkien was thinking of the word 'toke' meaning to smoke cannabis, as this usage seems to be a more recent invention. and certainly the Pippin has a fondness for his pipe despite being still considered a child by the other hobbits. Fatty Bolger's vice is excessive eating. The Bagginses are prone to collecting bagloads of money - Bilbo Baggins is one of the richest hobbits at the start of The Hobbit and comes back from his adventures literally with bags of money. The Sackville-Bagginses on the other hand will sack a hobbit's home to augment their own property - we find Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stealing some spoons on a visit to Frodo's house. Later, Lotho Sackville-Baggins organises the pillaging of the whole Shire for his own gain. And of course, Odo Proudfoot demonstrates the habit of being proud of one's appearance in a typically hobbit-like manner, by being literally proud of his feet."

That's not how I would put it, if you wish to follow my thoughts.

I would never say "Tolkien invented the word 'hobbit' without any idea as to what it meant"; rather that he invented the word 'hobbit' out of the blue and later disowned any intention of making it stand for something specific.

Similarly I wouldn't say "he appears to have associated it with the words 'hobby' and 'habit'." I would rather say that some resonance with the words 'habit' and 'hobby' is inescapable, and that Tolkien tacitly confirms this by making the hobbits to some extent personifications of the habits and hobbies of a British gentleman. I wouldn't say bad habits, as some (gardening) are definitely good habits/hobbies.

I am happy with "Tolkien even gave his hobbits names to suggest which 'habit' they represent. So we have Merry Brandybuck suggesting someone who drinks a lot and likes fine spirits. Pippin Took suggests pipe and tobaccoIt's unlikely Tolkien was thinking of the word 'toke' meaning to smoke cannabis, as this usage seems to be a more recent invention. and certainly the Pippin has a fondness for his pipe despite being still considered a child by the other hobbits. Fatty Bolger's vice is excessive eating." -- though 'vice' is perhaps excessive: 'weakness' perhaps?

"The Bagginses are prone to collecting bagloads of money" is a little off my mark; I would say 'collecting things'. The ring after all is his supreme trinket.

I am happy with "Bilbo Baggins is one of the richest hobbits at the start of The Hobbit and comes back from his adventures literally with bags of money" though I would add "as well as a magic sword and ring"

Well filled out, the next part "The Sackville-Bagginses on the other hand will sack a hobbit's home to augment their own property - we find Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stealing some spoons on a visit to Frodo's house. Later, Lotho Sackville-Baggins organises the pillaging of the whole Shire for his own gain." Thanks for expanding that.

I also read the Proudfoots (Proudfeet) as representing the harmless habit of rambling, more than that of grooming.

I would love to include a sentence about the relative poshness of the grander hobbies/habits, in direct proportion to their relative harmfulness, from the vice of collecting (The Elgin Marbles spring to mind) through the connoisseur pursuits of oenology and the appreciation of choice weed, down to the positive yet humble pursuits of gardening and caring (the more I think of it, the less random the choice of "Gamgee" seems to me).

I don't see what Gamgee has to do with anything. Am I missing something?

Tolkien invented the word 'hobbit' out of the blue and later disowned any intention of making it stand for something specific. Some resonance with the words 'habit' and 'hobby' is inescapable, however, and Tolkien tacitly confirms this by making the hobbits to some extent personifications of the habits and hobbies of a British gentleman.

He even gave his hobbits names to suggest which 'habit' they represent. So we have Merry Brandybuck suggesting someone who drinks a lot and likes fine spirits. Pippin Took suggests pipe and tobaccoIt's unlikely Tolkien was thinking of the word 'toke' meaning to smoke cannabis, as this usage seems to be a more recent invention. and certainly the Pippin has a fondness for his pipe despite being still considered a child by the other hobbits. Fatty Bolger's weakness is excessive eating. The Bagginses are prone to collecting things - Bilbo Baggins is one of the richest hobbits at the start of The Hobbit and comes back from his adventures literally with bags of money as well as a magic sword and ring. The Sackville-Bagginses on the other hand will sack a hobbit's home to augment their own property - we find Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stealing some spoons on a visit to Frodo's house. Later, Lotho Sackville-Baggins organises the pillaging of the whole Shire for his own gain. And of course, Odo Proudfoot demonstrates the harmless habit of rambling.

It is interesting that the further up the social scale one is, the more destructive the habit preferred. The humble Sam's hobby, gardening, is helpful, Merry and Pippin's habits harm only themselves while the other end of the scale the ultra-rich Sackville-Baggins family threaten the very existence of the Shire.

Sorry, the footnote has gone awry in that. Here it is again:

Tolkien invented the word 'hobbit' out of the blue and later disowned any intention of making it stand for something specific. Some resonance with the words 'habit' and 'hobby' is inescapable, however, and Tolkien tacitly confirms this by making the hobbits to some extent personifications of the habits and hobbies of a British gentleman.

He even gave his hobbits names to suggest which 'habit' they represent. So we have Merry Brandybuck suggesting someone who drinks a lot and likes fine spirits. Pippin Took suggests pipe and tobaccoIt's unlikely Tolkien was thinking of the word 'toke' meaning to smoke cannabis, as this usage seems to be a more recent invention. and certainly the Pippin has a fondness for his pipe despite being still considered a child by the other hobbits. Fatty Bolger's weakness is excessive eating. The Bagginses are prone to collecting things - Bilbo Baggins is one of the richest hobbits at the start of The Hobbit and comes back from his adventures literally with bags of money as well as a magic sword and ring. The Sackville-Bagginses on the other hand will sack a hobbit's home to augment their own property - we find Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stealing some spoons on a visit to Frodo's house. Later, Lotho Sackville-Baggins organises the pillaging of the whole Shire for his own gain. And of course, Odo Proudfoot demonstrates the harmless habit of rambling.

It is interesting that the further up the social scale one is, the more destructive the habit preferred. The humble Sam's hobby, gardening, is helpful, Merry and Pippin's habits harm only themselves while the other end of the scale the ultra-rich Sackville-Baggins family threaten the very existence of the Shire.

The entry which will be going into Peer Review is at A87865861. I've marked your contribution in red, but will change it to standard black when you say you are happy with it. I'll then put the entry into Peer Review.

You're listed as author and I'm listed as editor, but we will joint authors once the editor is picked and makes it to Edited status.

Thank you G. I really don't claim co-authorship! If you can credit me by name or researcher number for that snippet I would be perfectly happy.

I would make the following edits:

Keep paragraph 1, omit paragraph 3, and make paragraph 2 the following:

He even gave his hobbits names showing which habit/hobby they represent. Merry Brandybuck suggests an enthusiast for fine wines and spirits; Pippin Took suggests pipe and tobaccoIt's unlikely Tolkien was thinking of the word 'toke' meaning to smoke cannabis, as this usage seems to be a more recent invention. and certainly the Pippin has a fondness for his pipe despite being still considered a child by the other hobbits. Clearly Fatty Bolger's weakness is eating, and Odo Proudfoot could stand for hiking and country walks.
The Bagginses are keen on collecting things - Bilbo Baggins is one of the richest hobbits at the start of The Hobbit, and he comes back from that adventure with bags of money as well as a magic sword and the fateful ring, which he will find it surprisingly difficult to part with. His 'baggings' are innocent enough, though, compared with the Sackville-Bagginses, who will sack a hobbit's home for plunder: we find Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stealing some spoons on a visit to Frodo's house. Later, Lotho Sackville-Baggins organises the pillaging of the whole Shire for his own gain.
This leaves the real hero of the story, Sam Gamgee. His habit/hobby is at once the humblest and the noblest of all, gardening. His name, however, has a meaning; gamgee is a form of dressing for wounds, invented by a Victorian doctor of that name. Perhaps it is not stretching a point too far to suppose that Tolkien used the name to suggest Sam's true vocation, that of caring. This essential and invaluable pursuit is still undervalued today, while the more vicious habits/hobbies such as drinking and amassing wealth are dressed in glory. At the end of the story Sam returns to quiet wedded bliss, while Merry, who has contributed little enough to the success of the ring-bearer's mission, becomes Meriadoc the Magnificent.
The relationship of the gentlemen in the stories (particularly Gandalf and Aragorn) to their adopted hobbits is like that of a British gentleman to his chosen habits and hobbies. They pretend that they mean little to them personally, treating them with amused disdain bordering on contempt, but they find themselves curiously unable to do without them, even when they become a nuisance. If there is a moral message in all this (despite Tolkien's disavowal of any such) it is surely this: that the small things, that you pretend you could do without, may be more important in your life than you ever knew.