h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

my theory is kinda hinted on my personal page... they've been there long before the "flying saucers" made the headlines...

there have been "entities" fitting the MIBs profile through centuries and somehow their "job" was the same than the modern ones... intimidation of those who witnessed "strange" events...

their tendency to know what someone has seen before they had a chance to tell anyone and of course to know personal details of that person just after the events kinda nullifies the theory that MIBs are government agents...
tho' in some cases government agents might have aped them as it's a good way to make someone who've seen something "top secret" look ridiculous...

the theory that i'm keen on and which i have gone a bit further with is that the MIBs might not be aliens from outer space...
they also don't appear after every sighting and do not intimidate all witnesses...

the ones that seem to be targetted by the MIBs appear to have experienced psychic/paranormal events in their life before the sighting(s) which could mean that they are in theory more receptive than others and might have seen details than others haven't...

i have to re-read my notes eventually but UFOs sightings are relatively mundane now...

to justify intimidation towards witnesses some of these UFOs have to be very different than the others and come from another place than the expected one...

does that give you an idea of where i'm going?!...

i don't want to give too much away as there would be no point for me to write the related entries... hehe...

talk later...

loup

Hi loup,

If & when I can go into your space without feeling like I`m `snooping`, I shall.

(Daft I know, but I`ll get over it eventually. )

When you say `long before flying saucers`, to what time period are you referring?

From my own investigations, the so-called `flying saucers` have been around for an extremely long time.

Not with that particular `name`, but they have been around.

`The term `flying saucers` only came about from the one description, from ONE witness, but of course, if you know your subject, you also know that.

If you look at the history and what mankind has purported to see, `flying saucers` are a natural thing.

What about the gods and goddesses of the ancient world?

All these mysterious entities that come down on us on vehicles made of fire etc.

What about the flight of Icarus?!

Just seems to me that these things have been around for a long time and SOMEONE doesnt want us to know.

As for government agents imitating MIBs.... that is true.... they do.
I know.

But, at the same time, governments have also been around for a long time.

Maybe its just an on-going thing for them.

Psychic/paranormal events are my speciality!

I think that the strangest experience I ever had was when I did a `sweat` with a Native American friend.

I felt I was ready. Totally confident. BUT, when everything kicked off, I ed myself.

A very strange experience indeed!

Still to this day I feel embaressed about it and wish I could go back and try again. Maybe I will... who knows.

Do you REALLY think that UFO sightings are mundane?

I think that every one of them is worth at least a look. I do agree that most are obviously.... wishful thinking or hysteria, but there is the occasional one that isnt!!

There is, in fact, a relatively well-documented siting in, wait for it, TELFORD!! Where else!

In UFO mags, it was commonly called `The Telford Triangle`.

I did not actually see this myself, but wish I had.

I would like to be able to say a definite YES to `Do you believe`, but I cannot.

I have an open mind but also a touch of the sceptic. If I am going to believe in something/anything, it has to be without the shadow of a doubt.

Oh dear, I`ve talked too long.

I shall leave you in peace.

Be well and be happy Sir Knight.

Jane

hehe... i DID say 'long before the "flying saucers" hit the headlines...' which is more or less what you said in your reply... the term has been coined by a journalist after the witness described what he saw fom his plane and the term made the headlines then... but the MIBs and anything else related to their activities could well have been there since the beginning of life on this planet...

the term mundane was as opposed to "something-so-incredible-that-no-one-has-seen-before-and-no-one-must-know-about-so-let-make-sure-the-witnesses-will-be-silenced"
thing.

the only reason for the MIBs to get involved now is if the sighted UFO would give clues on where it comes from... [as i said before not all sightings have involved the MIBs]...
even through folklore's tales there are entities like the modern MIBs who shut witnesses up through intimidation and fear about things they've seen or experienced... [some reported stories were very similar to modern abductions]

while i think that the MIBs have only one origin i do actually believe that it's different with UFOs... many different places of origin there...

so even tho' the UFOs related to the MIBs activities come from one place other ones might come from different planets [nine different alien races visiting us known to us already]...

it's just that certain movies have completely ridiculised this aspect of the UFO lore and i must admit that not THAT long ago i was still believing that they were all government agents...

anyway the MIB project is far from being finished yet unfortunately, apart from time being needed [which is not that relevant as i could make some time] it's also a question of having too much infos... hehe... it's great in a way but without a computer the task suddenly becomes a chore... i'm sure one of these days i will just get on with it and finish at least the first part... once that's done then it will be free for all with the theories...

talk later...

loup

Hi loup,

My curiousity is definitely `piqued` so I`ve been looking up some of my own info as regards MIBs.

According to this, it is agreed that some MIBs are agents. It is also suggested that in cases similar to the ones you mentioned (where the witnesses say no-one else was told of their experience) that the MIBs could have, in fact, set it up (particularly contactee or abduction cases).

The info goes on to say that this could be an experiment in psychological warfare - to see how people would react to certain situations. It would also be a good way to evaluate peoples bizarre or `un-earthly` behaviour.

However, that is all yet one more theory, but worth a thought!

Having said that, there was a case in 1981 where the GSW received an anonymous letter from a man claiming to be an airman. He said he had seen a craft land and an `entity` emerge. A colleague of his took photos of the `entity` and craft but was then visited by MIBs. This was reported to AF police and the incident was investigated.
However, when said investigator was later questioned about his results, he denied all knowledge of the event.

The reason this was particularly suspicious was that the letter-writer divulged information about an area at the base that no-one had previously heard of. He said that `saucers` were kept there.

This area was later confirmed to be genuine.

Curiouser and curiouser!

Going back now to some of the things YOU said... if MIBs have been around since the beginning of life on the planet, that could suggest one of two things to ME, which I shall decline to mention for now.

Erich Von Daniken suggests that in evolution, the `missing link` was due to the fact that `visitors` had a hand in speeding up our development as a species.

As regards the MIBs being particularly interested in cases that may give us a clue as to where the craft come from.... thats definitely possible. Roswell being the prime example.

Some of that wreckage was said by witnesses to have letter and symbols on it. It wouldnt have taken long for it to be decoded.. probably already has been.

I agree with you about the movies. It could be to ridicule the idea but also to make people more wary of wanting to `make contact`. The thought is bound to cross peoples minds!
Are we going to see ET or Alien coming out of the door!!?

There was an interesting programme on tv yesterday about a `landing` where witnesses were kept well away etc. The craft was whisked away by officials and was reported to be conical in shape.

There are also reports that, for years, UFOs have been seen leaving and entering the ocean at certain places.... one of which being the Bermuda Triangle.

Logically, that would be a plausible reason why they`re here but well hidden.

I have a friend in Norwich who hated UFOs... she saw a LOT and it terrified her.

All food for thought but I dare say it will be another case of the more we know, the more we don`t!

It would be a chore to get all your info together without a computer. Be like having to draw an image instead of just taking a photo.

I wish you luck when you decide to set about it though.

Oh... really liked your description for `mundane`...

I`d better go, I`ve talked too much. (again!)

Talk later.

Jane

yep... lots of possible answers and not necessairily all wrong as it depends on which MIBs we are looking for...

talk soon

loup

Maybe I should visit your space and see what it was you said you were hinting at in there...

Have I gone off in the wrong direction is what I`m wondering?!

Which MIBs?! I`m curious again now so I may have a little look later...

Take care.

Jane

what i meant was because there are various theories about who the MIBs are there are also different kind of MIBs...

the government agents being one and unfortunately being even more sinister in a way than my favourite one... it has also been alleged that some "sightings"have been set-up to discredit some people who knew too much or have seen too much... for a long time UFOlogists were monitored by government agencies like if they were a threst to the state... people have died [allegedly] because of government agents involvment in some cases... and of course because of some top secret flights etc... government agents had to be involved if someone stumbled by accident in a restricted area and witnessed something there... tho' it has also been said that the best wa
y to test a new plane [the stealth bomber being one of them at the time] was to do it in populated area and then let people think it was a UFO...
and it seemed to have been working...

i'm more touching the MIB subject than the UFOs one but those who have attracted the MIBs involvment do interest me a lot and as you mentioned some writings on one crashed UFO it seems that some UFOs with symbols/writings on them do tend to be the ones that make their sighting witnesses the MIBs targets...

we also have to think about hoaxers... unfortunately like for some UFOs sightings/photos etc... some people will take pleasure in playing tricks on others...
but usually "fake" MIBs can be spotted easily as they ONLY arrive after the sightings have been publicised in the newspapers...

and even sadder really some UFOlogists groups have been known using MIBs tactics to intimidate other groups...

but we also have to remember that in many cases MIBs have been displaying "supernatural" powers such as appearing and disappearing in some witnesses homes and of course their "famous" black cars seem to be able to disappear into thin air too... not something THAT easy for some government agents to do... the appearing and disappearing trick has been witnessed with UFOs too in SOME sightings... and somehow that ability tends to suggest that these UFOs could actually travel through other dimensions...

the idea than another dimension [at least one] exists seems to be accepted by some scientists... and from what i remember some have been trying to explain ESP abilities with it... [?!]...

i haven't looked at the history of your area but i would suggest that it is a "window area" and that many "paranormal" events have been happening through history there... any knowledge of ley lines there too?!..

hehe... now we are really touching the theory i'm found of... i'll stop before i let the cat out of the bag...

so that would be four theories there tho' there may be many other theories why government agents are involved...

of course we could also accept the theory that some aliens have already some bases here [under the sea by the way...] and have been walking among us for a while.. and if some MIBs have been involved in some related sightings that could also mean that some MIBs could also be aliens...

it's really a case of who is copying who in a way...

oh another theory while we're at it: thought forms or thought projections... quite interesting idea there too... and that could be used by any category mentioned above as long as they know how to do it...

ok... hehe... that will do for now...

talk later...

loup

Hi loup,

still haven`t been into your space, but whats new.

Oh my goodness.... you are definitely igniting the fires of... how can I put it... `wanting to know`.

I honestly do not think that we ever shall know the truth, but that does not stop us looking.

You should join myself and MicroManiac in our Time Travelling journeys. Roswell is a favourite for us.

Do you know that it is said that when a person wakes at night with the feeling that `someone` is in the room even when there isn`t, that it is usually an indication of abduction?

If that be true, I have been abducted many times.

Seriously... I havent. I have only dreams. Weird ones I admit, but still only dreams.

I shall tell you of one that will make you smile, it MUST, it did me! In the dream, it was the MALES who were pregnant!! I remember thinking to myself "what the hecKKKKKK!" So weird.
I also remember asking questions because I was so confused, but like I say, it was just a dream.

Have you ever seen the story of Betty and Barney Hill? That was a classic case of a close encounter and the aftermath.

As regards people not remembering etc.... this is just a suggestion, but there is always hypnotism!!

Other dimensions! We are only one.... we see in 3 dimensions and we live in 3 dimensions... that does not mean to say that there aren`t more!!

Just as an aside... have you ever seen a film called `The Entity`? If you havent, you should. Based on a true story...

Aliens among us... intriguing thought hey?!

First Wave!

... my mind extends beyond limitations on occasion.

An an even EXTRA afterthought, only the people who truly wish to know the truth will keep investigating, which is when the debunkers will fall. May take a while, but fall they will.

MY AREA: Ley Lines!!


I shall say no more.

Changing the subject just slightly.... astral projection.

I have done experiments with this with friends of a like mind and it prooved extremely successful.

As I said to you before... I donot believe willy-nilly! I like proof.

The results were worth thinking about!

The Governments have admitted now that they DO use `remote viewers`! That has got to be a step in the right direction?!

I could talk about things like this all night, but I won`t.

I blame it on the bloodline!

I shall leave you in peace for now.

Have a peaceful and happy night Sir Knight.

Jane

hehe...

not exactly MIB related but there is a theory that UFOs sightings are actually due to the use of "micro-waves" [as an experiment of some sort]... so people see things that some scientists want them to see...

again why not... like the fact that government agencies might use remote viewing NOW [or at least these last 60 years] that still doesn't explain everything... hehe... the sighting of a stealth bomber when it was still top-secret and was confused with a UFO doesn't explain all the UFOs sightings before the 1940s...

in a way the origins of the... err... original MIBs have to be found in the past as now researchs etc in some fields might give the same appearent abilities to those who ape them for their own interests [national security or not]...

oh and it seems that through history some of the MIBs appearing in some people homes have also given important informations helping discoveries etc... so they can't be all bad... [hopefully]...

that will definitely be all for today... anyway twas good for me as it kinda helped me see how the MIB project has to be presented...

there will be a need to acknowledge a bit more the government agents theory...

it could be important too when comparing both kind of MIBs abilities...

as for the "someone's in the room" feeling... that reminds me of my reaction when i read about the "shadows entities"... i never thought they were associated with UFOs and thought they were only part of some people dreams...

so yep, in theory i might have had several close encounters too myself... hehe...

dreams are another interesting subject when it comes to theories...

but as i said that will do for today...


talk later...

loup

Hi loup, I`m here finally.

Very interesting. I`m glad we started this conversation because its made ME start thinking of things I hadn`t thought of before!

What you said about micro-waves being used to influence what some people see would fit in with what I mentioned about some cases being `set-up`.

Now either that is for the reason of testing peoples reactions OR, on a more devious route, it could be to discredit or lead us away from, the genuine cases!! Hmmmmmmm.... interesting.

You`re right of course, remote viewing wouldn`t explain everything and I doubt that remote viewers would be able to see things in such detail.

I`m not 100% sure about that of course because I haven`t looked into the subject excessively, but it seems unlikely.

Its good to start putting all these ideas together though.... process of elimination and all that.

Nope, they sure can`t use the stealth bomber excuse before the 40`s and they wouldn`t be able to use the old `its the weather balloon` ruse for older sightings either.

I don`t know if you HAVE read any of Erich Von Danikens books, but if you haven`t, they may be worth a look for you.

There are photos of cave drawings that have images of what LOOK like, astronauts etc.

There is also one particular photo of a plaque that looks like a person at the controls of a `craft`.

All these things are many, many years old. Poor Mr. Daniken has had some stick over the years for his views. I have all but one of his books, so you can tell that I`ve been a fan for a while.

`They` would HAVE to make it APPEAR that the modern MIBs have similar abilities to the others because that is all part and parcel of the deception.

Strange you mentioning about cases where the MIBs have given important information to help with discoveries etc because it brought to mind some of the things that I have read myself as regards this.

There are a few writers who have also said that their `inspiration` came from `somewhere else`!!

All this would fit in (in a way) with the theory that we were `helped along` in our development by outside intervention.

Wouldnt it be awful if it was like the Matrix and we`re all just an `experiment`?!!

I think its a good idea what you said about making sure the government MIBs are properly covered in your project.

Most peoples reaction when they hear the term `MIBs` associate them, as I did, with agents and modern sitings.

I think it would be important to make that clear and get it out of the way then people would be better prepared to hear about the others. No confusion.

Also, as you said, it would be good in order to make comparisons between the two.

Be really interesting to see all the info together and see what emerges.

`Shadows entities`! I`m curious again now.

A-ha, so it looks like you`ve had a few abductions too then.

DREAMS.

I put them into three categories.
1. What I call, `get rid of` dreams. The kind that can all be associated with things that have gone on in the day. The ones that keep us sane supposedly.

2. `Help` dreams. Like if something is really troubling us etc and we are struggling to find a solution. These dreams seem to come up with the answers.

3. `Premonition` dreams.

I shall now `ape` some of your words and say `that will do for today`.

Jane

hehe... twill be a very quick reply today... i think it will be anyway...

the "shadow entities" did puzzle me a lot as at first i couldn't see why the ones who are only seen in bedrooms were related to the ones seen near some UFO sightings... the descriptions were only vaguely similar... but the two-dimentional appearance seemed to be in both tho'... so who knows... too close for comfort this one... hehe...
and i sure don't feel comfortable reading about them...

as for the intervention of entities from "somewhere else" and usually dressed in black giving information or inspiration yep there seem to be many cases through history...
i'm writing from memory at the mo' but i kinda remember that those masters of occult lodges of the past got their knowledge that way too...

then of course that would also mean that some "MIBs" are helping us while others are manipulating some "poor" megalomaniac souls into doing things not particulary beneficiary to human kind...

EVEN more confusing now... hehe...

yep... i do have a strong feeling that it would be a grave mistake to amalgamate all the MIBs encounters under the same category...
but yes it seems that there have been some kind of involvement from entities from "somewhere else" [parallel world/other dimension?!] into the human race's affairs through history...

aaaaand cut!!!!... hehe... i'm kinda repeating myself there... doh!!!... anyway i did say it would be a quick reply... well kinda...

talk soon

loup

Lights, camera, ACTION!

Hi loup,

Liked the `kinda quick reply`!!

I don`t like the sound of those `shadow entities` AT ALL! I don`t like the idea that even a locked door wouldn`t keep them out! That is creeepppyyyy!

That reminds me of a couple of stories I`ve heard of certain `aliens`.

In one, this woman claimed that these entities were outside the house and she was terrified because she had been abducted before. She then went on to say that they walked through the walls and still got to her!

Curiouser and curiouser.

Lots of different dimensional worlds existing at the same time and in the same place but seperate and unseeable by the others.

If this is the case and some entities have found a way to `cross over`, surely they must have to do something else in order for us to be able to see them!!

If they`re two-dimensional (or whatever), logically, we shouldn`t be able to see them should we?!!

Hmmmmm... puzzling.

I haven`t heard that about the masters of occult lodges but it wouldn`t surprise me.

The claims that have been made about having `the knowledge`..... well, how do they know it is the correct knowledge unless told so, and even then, how would they be sure?!

Maybe thats why some MIBs lead some down the wrong path and get away with it. Maybe a person being told something by this `entity` would automatically believe them because of who they are!

It appears that there are good and bad beings in ALL dimensions!

Going back to lodges for a moment. Have you ever come across The Rosicrucians?

Oh well, this is MY attempt at a quick reply.

Talk later.

Jane

another attempt of quick reply...

re: rosicrucians... YEP...

re: parallel universe/other dimension... that could explain certain "apparitions" in the past and tales of people being "abducted" and taken to another world [folk lore tales etc...]... that could ALSO explain why some areas seem to be "windows areas" and have a more than normal concentration of UFOs sightings and other "unexplained" events... these areas seem to be some kinda portals to "somewhere else"...

these beings from "somewhere else" guiding [or misguiding in some cases] whoever they came in contact with are believed to be a certain kind of elementals... there are documented written reports about them from the 17th century if i'm not mistaken [might be earlier but as i'm writing from memory i don't want to exagerate... will check the proper dates]...

these elementals had certains abilities and one of them was to be able to pass for human beings... and according to these texts they didn't like "being spoken of" and used INTIMIDATION and FEAR to silence witnesses...
they could ALSO go through walls and appear and disappear inside their victims homes...

ooooops... attempt to quick reply has failed it seems...

one more point tho'... the rosicrusians "know" that UFOs don't all come from outer-space... and i would bet my life savings [if i had any] that they know something about a parallel universe/other dimension... hehe...

mmmmmmm... twas a relatively quick reply... lmho...

loup

Abducted and taken to another world. If that be true, that would explain a lot of the tales.

Maybe the idea of all this was a lot more acceptable and understood in the ancient world.... taken as a normal occurance.

But as the populace grew and certain ideas forced people to change their attitudes, it was either `forgotton` and passed into the pages of folk-lore, OR, certain societies were formed in order NOT to forget and were the guardians of the `secrets`.

I agree about the `window areas`.... the triangle has got to be at the forefront of that. Too many strange events there.

I wanted to join the Rosicrucians but can`t afford it at the moment.

Another group would be the Druids of course.

Elementals. I know them as allies to witches too AND what you said about them not liking to be spoken of makes sense.

As far as I understand it, if you know the true name of beings like this, it gives you power over them and they don`t want THAT do they?!

I hope I don`t spend the rest of the night looking round the room. Blimey.

Oooo, I`ve just shuddered.

This was definitely a quick reply.

Jane

hehe...

well that kinda gives you an idea of the possible origins of SOME possible MIBs... still not a very clear line as were they elementals or entities pretending to be elementals...

some researchers are actually saying that these entities not only pretended to be elementals and were behind many deceiving "apparitions" but they would also pretend being aliens... we have to remember that they allegedly can change shapes [to pass as human beings] and they do use hypnotic suggestion as well... [many MIBs victims too have said that they felt they were under a kind of hypnotic suggestion while they were there...]... something about glamour and fog is also in the texts about these "elementals"... i definitely have to go through my notes soon... hehe...
anyway these entities assuming many appearences [including human beings, elementals and err... aliens?!] seem to enjoy [still allegedly] tricking human beings and would not mind deceiving us to the point of pushing us to our own destruction... THAT is what these researchers are saying... there is also something about these entities wanting to get "this world back"...
but somehow they haven't succeeded and as we've said before, other "entities" have been helping positively... so yeah we might just be pawns in a big "good Vs evil" kind of game really... or just an experiment... who knows...


talk later...

loup

This has drifted off topic a little

not THAT much really......

we did have discussions around that subject on LD...
and LD is on telewest...
so nope... not really... lol...

loup

Hiya, I`m back!

To go back ONTO topic a little , I had terrible trouble with this and my emails last night!

Right.... back to MIBs!

In a lot of cultures there has been the belief about `entities` that can change shape etc.

Notably, the `shape-shifters` of NA culture.

What about the cases of `possession` where the `victims` features etc are visibly seen to change!

The hypnotic suggestion they are said to use is very plausible because of the cases that have been reported in alleged abductions.

It is said that the `entities` hypnotise the abductee in order that they forget their experience and the memories then only linger as dreams.

THAT raises yet another question! When people go to hypnotists and `regain` the memories of their abduction, ARE they remembering, or has the memory been implanted?!

Confusing!

Its quite a disconcerting thought really. The idea of being manipulated by things we know so little about. Horrible.

I had a strange thought a couple of nights ago. (When don`t I?!)

It was just something that happened a few years ago. Talking about this brought it back to mind.

Curious!!

Anyway loup, I think its definitely time to go back through your notes.

I shall go for now.

Talk later,

Jane

i sure will...

i know i got more details on the "micro-waving" somewhere...

but first i need to finish a few things on here... hehe... some codings to have a look at......


talk soon


loup

Codings!! Rather you than me.

Talk later

Jane