h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Saw in the "I am awkward" thread, that you are applying to uni to do Philosophy (and some other stuff as well - but I wanna focus on this if I may. ).

Thought you might like to know that myself U113478
and Smiley Ben U27280

Have both recently graduated with BA (Hons) in Philosophy

and Uncle Heavy U129295
is starting his undergraduate theology and philosophy degree at Oxford soon.

So you are among friends.

Excellent thanks for contacting me! h2g2 is such a friendly place, probably coz as the ACE said to me when I joined "we're all mad here!"

How did you find philosophy? I'm studying it at A-level and have read a heap of books on the subject - methinks it seems fascinating at degree level! Congrats on your graduation! What are you thinking of doing with your philosophy degree? I have no idea what I want to do after university, I guess I'll just have to see where life leads me! What uni were you at? If I don't get into Oxford, I'm thinking of going to Wales.

cya,
*Kate*

Hiya kate (I'm an ACE too - but I changed my name tag pretty frequently so most times I advertise it sometimes I don't)
but oh yeah h2g2 is *the friendliest* community site on the , no question.

I never was able to study philosophy at A level so you have one over on me there - is it any good? A heap of books is a healthy start - be careful though they breed - I've got shelf loads!!

Philosophy is a fascinating subject - having dropped Law as an early consideration for my degree while at school - it became quickly apparent to myself and my friends and family that I had definately found my niche in philosophy.

I studied at the University of Hull an I began specialising at an early stage in my undergraduate career in continental European philosophy - especially existentialists like Jean-Paul Sartre and just sort of tolerated the rest. It was on his work that I wrote my final year 12,000 word dissertation; but I have had friends who have made it their mission to study solely Greek Philosphy and others who have gone onto more analytical interests like the philosophy of science. I expect you'll find your interests and tastes for particular facets of a subject develop over time as you come into contact with more and different thinkers.

Do you have any thinkers you are particularly interested in at the moment? I can say from experience that the more interest you have in a subject the easier it is to get on with it. Degrees are not easy but it is easier to cope with if you know your actually studying something that you enjoy learning more about. From the sounds of it you've got about the right level of enthusiasm, (I'd say on the richter earthquake scale you are about a 9.9 )

How did I find philosophy - see above: A lot of hard work. (or if you mean the story of why I did it - ask and I shall tell all.) but this would be true of any degree - you need to be quite disciplined to keep up with the reading. Also make best friends with the library - you will be spending a lot of time there.
However, I really, really enjoyed it. I am currently preparing an application to study post-gradute philosophy at Warwick (I took a look at Oxford and decided against it - still can't believe I did that - but it didn't have the courses I wanted. How crazy is that?, I know! -P)

I think there is especially for me an attraction to do this at post graduate level with an eye to eventually to a Phd and getting a doctorate - to teach the motley crew of philosophy undergrads that I was and you will be. however, that is not a path for everybody and actually as a non-vocational degree philosophy gives you a lot of transferrable sakills you can talk up on a c.v and often for employers it's a balence between just having the degree and *then* what subject it is in.
However it's a good sign that you are already thinking about what you are going to do after uni - I never did that and nearly alomst regretted it. I landed on my feet though and am looking forward to getting back to my studies.

Wales? Hmm - is that a long way from home for you or quite close? I was only about 2hrs from home by train which was great cos I could nip there and back in a day if I ever needed to or rent a book from the library for an essay I was writing over the holidays.

I also thoroughly reccomend moving into halls in your first year - because you get to meet so many friends, which is important when you are out on your own for the first time. (but then I would say that - I was hall president for a year! )


BCNU

Clive.

The A-level is mainly the philosophy of religion - it's quite a good introduction although I seem to be becoming more into the logical side of philosophy. Although I tolerate the ethical side of things I sometimes cannot see the point of applying complex moral theories, I guess I don't really believe that there is really any such thing as morality except in the context of the community. In other words I don't really imagine God sitting up there and spluttering on that Fred is wrong and Jon is right, its just a question of politics and keeping society pleasant!

So far the philosopher I've found most interesting is Descartes. The idea of doubting is fascinating because although it's quite logical it's not really one of those things you think of doing in everyday life (and in excess can probably lead to confusion and extreme mental instability!) I also find Russell quite intriguing, in fact the only philosopher I oppose with intense enthusiasm is Kant (in his moral and metaphysical ideas) because he's a cynical old codger! Oh, and Plato's idea of selectively breeding the Guardians in his imaginary city is also slightly distressing to say the least!

I know what you mean about books breeding, I already have a whole shelf dedicated to my philosophy books and whenever I wander into a book shop I always have a compulsive urge to buy more - methinks I'll probably have a scary book hording habit by the time I've finished my degree!

So, why did you do philosophy? I'm intrigued, so tell all! I originally wanted to do Veterinary Science - a degree I now think I would be about as suited to as the square root of 2 is to playing football! I took the philosophy A-level as my 4th subject which I was planning on dropping after the 1st year, and I guess it just took over my life. I decided that it'd be much more interesting to take something non-vocational where I would have freedom to use my imagination and choose between various topics, rather than something like medicine which simply stacks a multitude of brains full of facts and is basically a doctor-factory. I'm far too eccentric to do a degree like that! I'd like to finish University life with a doctorate in philosophy, and possibly stay in an academic profession, although I'll probably end up doing something very random!

I agree I simply HAVE to live in the Halls of Residence - because (A) it's closer to the library and (B) it'll allow me to participate rampantly in the social side of university. In my opinion, uni isn't just about getting a degree, it's learning how to survive as an independant and non-ridiculous adult and broadening your horizons.

Wales is about 4 hours from me as I live in Cornwall. It seems like a really friendly place where its easy to get to know everyone and people help each other out - unlike Bristol which appears completely impersonal. Would you recommend Hull?

Some people don't seem to like Oxbridge - I personally was completely uninspired by Cambridge!

Cya,

*Kate*

Wow - sorry for the (really, really) late reply (It's amazing what you find you've missed when you do a little digging in the backlog isn't it?

It probably doesn't matter now but the sotry of 'why philosophy', was as follows:

The school didn't offer philosophy as a subject when I was at school so for the longest time it wasn't even a consideration of mine.
I gravitated towards the more 'artsy' A-Levels (before this AS levels mess - it was so much simpler back then. ) choosing English Literature, Sociology and Law. Oddly, and as I would later coem to put on my personal statement to ucas, it was the philosophical aspects of these subjects that really got my interest going - f'instance the nature of law and morality, whether the two can or should be indentical, in sociology there were elements of philosophy with some of the theoretical perspectives like marxism. Still for all that the subject I was enjoying the most and thought I was rather good at was law - and I idly considered this to be my best option to apply for when the time came.

The year rolled round - and it was in one of my sociology classes with one of my teachers (Mark James - I remember his name cos he has a lot to answer for! ) asked the class what they were doing for university. The class was quite small and intimate there were only about oh 8 or 10 of us by the end of the year so we were all quite good friends. He went aroud the room eliciting replies fof' journalism' 'zoology' and a lot of sage nodding. And then he got to me.

"What do you want to do, Richard." (My RL name. )

and without pausing for effect unabashed I announed:

"LAW".

Mr James fell out of his chair.

(No, really - he did. it was a stool , he fell off of it out of shock.)

"YOU??" he said "LAW???"

by now I was slightly taken aback as you might imagine, here was one of the teachers I quite liked and respected quite clearly beyond belief that I was choosing to do that subject.

"yes?" I ventured.

"You'd hate it." he proclaimed. "It so dry and boring - just learnign case names - no, no, no, i can't see you doing law at all. something like pyschology or sociology - or...philosophy."

My ears pricked up.

"philosophy? - you can do that can you?"

At this moment the bell rang and we all left and that was it. The seed was planted - I looked into it and announced my decision to ym parents who were horrified beyond words - their first born child suddenly wasn't going to become a lawyer! ) but it quickly became apparne tthat my midn was made up.

and then I failed my A-levels.

Well, I say failed - my grades were a good 4 or 5 places below where I wanted them to be or was expecting to get. I even got an 'N' for law. (To this day I am mystified how I did quite *so* badly but nevertheless.)

I was faced with a decision I could either accept the points I did get (er 10 or 16, i think it was.) and go to a lower level uni that would still accept me or go back to college and do re-sits for a year.

To cut a long story short, I did the later. (on the gorund that this one college offered philosophy as an A level only when i turned up it turned out they'd discontinued it as i was the only applicant from the entire county that year.) Best of all since the college had tought philosophy the library, unlike the one at school, had a philosophy shelf and I began to read...
I also grew up a lot, matured like crazy - did lots of hard work got starred 'A's for nearly all my essays - sat the exmas and came close to droping out again. (note to self: revision - very important.) Got C's in the end - which was a dissapointment but the question was would Hull (the only uni I'd wanted to apply to again.) still accept me?

They did. () so everyday I was there was like a little pick-me-up - I did it, I made it.

I've said it before but I took to philosophy like a duck to water.

My other sociology teacher a man caled Roger Tordoff (someone else I blame for the way I've turned out. ) in fact he saw my burgening interest in philosophy while i was at college and reccommended I should read some guy called jean-Paul Sartre as he thought I might enjoy him. So, when I saw they were offering a course on Sartre at uni in the first semester - I took it. Quite simply I've never looked back. When I was doing my dissertation and when i graduated with my 1:1 and my lecturers kept commenting on how pleasing it was for them to see a student maintain an interest throughout their time at university. I would have liked to have studied Sartre almost exclusively if I could - and that of course is still my ultimate goal.



I think, if I can borrow a line from someone who was quopted in a prospectus I was reading while applying to uni, "I've been doing philosophy all my life, I just hadn't realised it until now."

That really is fascinating! You must have been so incredibily elated to get into Hull in the end... I guess sheer determination and enthusiasm, of course when backed up by a healthy dose of good old intelligence, is the main thing a university is looking for. My worst nightmare is that I'll be left with no placings whatsoever and all my friends will be gleefully trundling off to Oxford. My immensely sarcastic careers teacher dragged me into his office when he received my UCAS form and exclaimed "LAMPETER!!!! YOU WANT TO GO TO LAMPETER?? DO YOU REALISE ITS ON A PUNY LITTLE HILL IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE?!?!" So I explained to him that basically I would much rather go to a friendly, rural university where I'll be treated like a person rather than a statistic even if the academic standards are slightly lower. At private school they seem to expect everyone to want to go to some concrete, towering, graduate factory in the middle of a filthy city.

I similarly had two fabulous members of staff who inspired me greatly. Firstly there Mr Russell Buley, who was so fantastically eccentric that he really should have been a celebrity. He introduced the idea of Teloses to me, which is now one of my favourite area of philosophy. I'll admit that when he left school last year i did actually cry!

Then there was Mr Clive Case. As with Buley, eccentric is the only word! He introduced me to the more absurd side of philosophy which I find completely fascinating... such as proving existence. Well, I guess it's not really absurd but my less open minded friends would suggest it is completely undoubtable whether there is a computer in front of me and I should therefore quit trying to write an essay on the topic. By questioning the basic nature of things which are easily taken for granted, such as time, physical objects and whether humans have free will, I find it's possible to view the world in new ways, which is, I guess, why it's so intriguing.

At one point I almost went in the Law direction... I got disgruntled about a court case my family were involved in last year and decided I'd like nothing more than to help others in similar situations. However, its such a dour subject, as dry as the dust on a musty chemistry book festering in a loft without any sign of a leaky roof.

Many of my friends appear to have their career paths painstakingly mapped out, but I seem to meander haphazardly through life stumbling upon the occasional massive spark of inspiration. Although I study scientific subjects, I'm not at all practical. Most people doing maths want to go into finance or engineering. I think that's far too restrictive... I do maths purely for the fascination factor, for the ingenious algebraic journey to discover what x equals! No, really, it's fantastic what you can do with logic and numbers! They all think I'm some arty loon, and are probably totally right.

I guess philsophy can be described as the endless attempt to discover what x equals in the bewildering equation of life. However, as everyone's life is different, so is everyone's equation and therefore everyone's ultimate solution. If only my calculator could work that one out...

the meaning of extistence (why being) and free will are all questions sartre tries to adress so I recognise where you are coming from there - the intersst factoir goes way up when you start seeing how people in the past have tried to tackle these really big questions of human reality.

now see me, I went to some tatty old comprehensive - where we never had any money and the teachers were for the most part poor as hell. although that said, I know of two people from my school who also went to hull (to do drama and law, respectively and they both got 1:1's as well - so we have all sort of joined the school's honour role!! ), if they have one.)

it strikes me - and forgive me for saying this but I suspect its probably more true than not - that the guy who called you in for daring to select Lampeter as an option - probably only has in mind the schools percentage of students it sent to oxbridge than what was ultimately best for the individual themselves.

Fret not about the career path thingy - it's always good to have an idea of what you want to do and if you can fulfill that idea then all the better but it's not a requirement for life. I know one guy at uni who did computing wiht only one aim in mind: money - he could get a startiong sallery of at least £20,000+ - and it would increase exponetially from there on in. to the best of my knowledge he still has yet to find a job. so it's not there for everyone.

Clive.

forgive any spelling erros that crop up in that posting. I am tired and not focussing on the keyboard as I should.

Oxbridge does appear immensely important to my school, last year we sent a comparitively high proportion of boffins there. I'm predicted my 3 A's, and have applied, but can't help thinking that the whole admissions procedure is going to be TERRIFYING. Oxford aside, many of the other very prestigious universities such as Warwick appear completely impersonal and seem to have no character whatsoever - the kind of place where you phone and get some monotone computerised voice droning on "to do this, press 1... to do that..." etc. However, at Lampeter, the phone line is connected to a happy little soul who is actually HELPFUL. I'm sure Warwick wouldn't notice if I was a student there and spontaneously dropped dead one day!

I know several people who appear to be going into careers for precisely the wrong reason... such as a guy who's going to be a doctor simply because that's what his dad does, and several people who are going to the local art college, which is actually one of the best in the country, simply because it's close and they have no idea what they want to do.

The meaning of existence is a wonderous topic... underneath its seemingly cheesy reputation as THE stereotypical philosophy question!

Long time no see.

How's things?

Lol - just been reading my last post in this thread from Oct 2002... I certainly didn't expect then that I'd be where I am now! I've just finished my first year at Oxford university, where I'm studying maths and philosophy. Am having an absolutely splendid time, I'm at one of the smaller and friendlier colleges (Pembroke) and apart from the occasional nasty great essay squatting in the middle of my life its all one huge punting and pimms fest!

Anyway, how are things with you?

Finishing off my MA at Warwick.

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