h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm just curious.

I have read a few of the conversations you have been in and something strikes me as odd:

You don't talk about yourself. Everyone on h2g2 does. Even people who do nothing but debate or try to put their views across give some sense of who they are, but you do not appear to. Why?

If I were to second guess you I'd guess that you'll ask me about my religion and when I tell you that I have naught but my thoughts you will try to convert me. I know a fair few devout christians, and they have had their attempts to so the same for me. (Yes -for- me, I honestly belive that they and you are trying to help the best way you know how - maybe I dont know how to listen yet) I can only promise you what I promised them:

I am still searching for the truth and will continue to do so. Even after I think that I have found it. Truth is a funny thing - it is not something that can be forced, you can force people to speak the truth, but in order for a person to belive it they need to feel (Yes -feel- there can be no proof of anything, I feel that cognito ergo sum is overestimating how much we can truely know) it for themselves. There is nothing you can say that will convince me of what you deem (and may be) the truth, I will not know until I get there on my own.

Given this I was wondering if you'd be willing to chat about other matters than faith? What sort of a person are you? What are your hobbies? Do you have any siblings? Pets? Do your pets have any siblings? And so on...

Acid Override:

you can find out all about Justin here:

http://www.newtestamentpattern.net/testimonies/justinhughes

Acid,

No Christian minister (real one) talks about himself, except on the rare occasion to make a point. They only speak about the glorious Christ that they serve. When you have met Him you will understand. He is the Truth, Jn.14:6, and He is a Person, not a philosophy. You will not find any truth separate from Him.

I would not seek to 'convince' you, as you say. All Christians (with the possibly exception of baby Christians who don't understand much yet), will just do what Jesus did; state The Truth. If God be pleased to apply that to your heart you will see.

J.

"If God be pleased to apply that to your heart you will see."

... and if God be not pleased to apply that to your heart, you'll burn in Hell and the Lake of Fire for the rest of time.

Don't worry though - Justin makes very clear that there is absolutely nothing you can do to affect the outcome. As he says - if God be pleased to save you, you're OK. And if he can save a hypocritical lying alcoholic adulterer like Justin, there is indeed hope for us all. Just not actually very many of us...

<>

Just as well. Mostly you have the effect of making people run screaming in the opposite direction.

az

What "baby" christians?

Justin, you have made perfectly clear the criteria for being one of "the saved". It is by "your" standards (ie those explained to you personally by your lord and outlined for us, by you) impossible for a baby to meet those criteria.

Madent,

<>

Not at all. Justinites are chosen at random. A bit like winning the lottery. So in all fairness, this could include babies. Though I wonder how they will realise they are hearing the Word of God and not just being told 'oooh, what a precious little one!'

az

Perhaps you are right, az.

As far as I can work it out the core of justinian theology seem to be:


The Book of Justin
Chapter 1

1 - Everyone is born with sin and freely engages in acts of sin. (This seems to be anything involved with living an ordinary life, but special attention is paid to adultery, homosexuality, alcoholism and similar past acts of Justin and to those who are made by god to be more intelligent than Justin.)
2 - To be absolved of sin (as defined in verse 1), one must be born again (see below).
3 - To be born again, one must be chosen by god to hear the word of god. (An arbitary choice over which we have no personal control, ie we cannot choose to listen, although we appear to be able to choose not to listen.)
4 - Having heard the word of god (ie listened to Justin), one must choose to accept the word. (Irrespective of this choice, one is damned unless one's name appears in the book of life. However it seems that it is not possible to reject the choice and still have one's name in the book.)
5 - Having heard and accepted the word through god-authored faith (verses 3 and 4), one is reborn (not physically, of course).
6 - Once reborn, one is made free of sin and one's place in heaven is assured.
7 - One must then engage in the pointless and apparently fruitless exercise of spreading the word of god to all those who have not been chosen in verse 3 or who have rejected the choice in verse 4 (ie anyone who's name does not appear in the book of life) as a sign of one's continuing commitment to god and worthiness to enter heaven.
8 - One's manual for the activity defined in verse 7 is the bible, preferrably the KJV, the interpretation of which becomes instantly clear once one has become reborn and the meaning of which is hidden to everyone else (ie everyone that one will preach to as required in verse 7).
9 - One can then expect to be persecuted for one's worthiness by those unable to attain rebirth as their names do not appear in the book of life.

It's seriously tempting to start a Justin Project to record the Gospel of Justin, perhaps as a series of articles based around his journals.

Take chapter one above, remove the parentheses and then develop each verse into its own chapter with quotes from the sage himself. At least that way it would be possible to clearly present Justinian theology to all and sundry in a manner that all could understand.

Madent!

This person is the spawn of the Devil who pretends he is speaking the Word of God.

How dare you try to promote him!



az

That's a really good idea! It would certainly save a lot of time.

Ah, I see . . . yes, perhaps it would be a kindness.

az

Like I said - I sometimes lurk a bit and agree with some of what you people are saying - but it does seem to be an attack coming out of the blue that Justin has done nothing to deserve in this thread.

I was just curious who he is. A man cannot be defined by his faith alone, and I don't feel comfortable with the sort of views being expressed here given that we know next to nothing about the sort of person jtp is.

Donald, thanks for the help, but I was more curious about what sort of a person Justin is. Accounts of his beliefs can be found in most of the conversations that he is in on h2g2 I'm more curious about the rest of what makes him...him.

Jtp you say a minister does not talk about himself. This may be true. But while everything that a minister is can be contained within a person but not everything that is contained within a person can be contained within a minsiter. I guess a more direct way to phrase the question would be "wheres the rest of 'ya"

Acid,

There is nothing curious. I am a perfectly ordinary man, only I have been sovereignly saved by the grace of God. Someone posted a link to my testimony on another site I see. You will find articles and book reviews written by me on the same site, (though the site is not mine).

I am a servant of God. There is no salvation in me, and talking about me serves no useful purpose. Put me down as an ordinary man with an extraordinary God. Talking about oneself is vanity in my view.

J.

Justin, you are NOT an ordinary man.

Ordinary men do not become alcoholics. Ordinary men do not betray a barren wife by fathering a bastard child by their mistress.

That you think such behaviour "ordinary" says as much about you as I think anyone needs to know.

Remeber, what purpose are you serving here? Jtp knows what you think of him and I have a nasty tendancy to talk to people and make my own mind up. If you want to attack Jtp open another dialog on his homepage and if you want to warn me off talking to him start one on mine but do not come here to disrupt an otherwise civilised conversation.

Jtp I am a curious person - not particularly interesting but curious to know things. I like to (given certain assumptions about the nature of reality) know what I can. People are by far the most fascinating thing I have come across in my time here (Wherever that is). There is no such thing as an ordinary man, everyones got something about them that is interesting - if not to them then normally to someone else.

Things that people say are interesting, but you can know a lot about what people say when you know about the person who is talking. This holds true even for secondary quotations. I can quote from the bible:

"god...is...false"

The words: god, is and false appear in that order somewhere within the text. Suppose you were naive to the contents of said book then you might conclude that the bible is a denouncment of god. However given information about my beliefs and the point I was trying to make when I made the quote you can conclude that I am telling you nothing about the contents of the book that I am quoting and more about myself. This is true despite the fact that all I did was quote the book word for word. (Or in three one word chuncks to be precise)

When you conceal yourself from the world then your words lose context and thus all meaning.

Bear in mind that I do not know the truth and am still searching. Even when I think I have found it I will continue to search. So long as there are two people who hold different beliefs about a universal truth I will belive that a person can decieve themselves into thinking the search is over when it is not. If a person can be decieved then so can I.

So to seek the truth I must know things. Since I do not know what the truth is or where I will find it I cannot be sure what things there are that I must know. So I ask questions whenever something seems odd or doesn't add up I find out in the eternal hope that in finding a thing which I seek I will find the answer.

I might find it tommorow when I check my mail. Or I may never find out. The only thing that I am sure of is that if you do not ask questions then you will never find answers.

Why do people seem to take a low view of you?

Do you have any hobbies?

Did you do the things remeber suggests?

Why?

Do you question your truth?

Why are you on premod?

Do you have any pets?

Who are you?

Acid,

I see.

Well, Jesus said, "Ye will be HATED of all men for my name's sake." They are of the devil and all his children hate the children of God, that is it, in a nutshell. They cannot get at God, so they attack His people, and cannot help themselves, they must do it.

I do the normal stuff of life, and I enjoy music and phography.

I don't read 'remember's' posts, so I don't know what he/she/it is alleging, but considering who it is I shall enter 'don't be ridiculous' here.

I don't question the Truth. I KNOW Him, and through Him, God the Father.

I am on pre-mod for telling the truth and upsetting the lovers of sin and pagan religion. That is against the house rules. However, people like 'remember' and others can use any amount of filth and never get put on pre-mod, even if their posts are constantly being complained about and removed.

I do have pets.

I am as I said, and you have read my testimony.

J.

Ah, sweet music. What music do you enjoy?

Hi Justin .

So we are off with the fairies again huh? Let's deconstruct your latest claims shall we?

"Well, Jesus said, "Ye will be HATED of all men for my name's sake." They are of the devil and all his children hate the children of God, that is it, in a nutshell. They cannot get at God, so they attack His people, and cannot help themselves, they must do it."

Not true, and demonstrably so. When there was a movement to have you banned from h2g2, who stood by you? Who mounted a campaign to have you not only restored, but freed of your pre-mod status? It was the man now known as Remember and myself, amongst others. Hardly the actions of people who hate you.

You would like us to hate you, and do your very best to encourage people to hate you. This is because you need to fulfill the biblical quote above to feel like a 'real' christian. A bit sad really.

Unfortunately we don't hate you. At worst a few people pity you. Others, such as myself, consider ourselves to be your friends.

"I am on pre-mod for telling the truth and upsetting the lovers of sin and pagan religion."

Well as far as I know, the pagan community here on h2g2 are not upset by you. None of them have ever yikes'd you nor done anything but held up the flagrant nonsense you spout to calm logic and reason. When faced with that you usually unsubscribe.

You are on pre-mod because of your personal and ad hominem attacks on anyone who dares to question you, especially other christians.

"However, people like 'remember' and others can use any amount of filth and never get put on pre-mod, even if their posts are constantly being complained about and removed."

'Remember', aka 'member', aka 'Hoovooloo', has spent plenty of time in the doghouse too (I'm thinking of nicknaming him 'the Cooler King'). I know this for I campaigned to have him let out. There again what you call 'filth' we call 'free speech'.

Any more for any more?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

hi Justin,

<>

Sorry, don't hate you. Can't say I like you all that much, but I reckon the feeling is mutual there. At least I would not take pleasure in the concept of you burning in a Lake of Fire.

(Matholwch)

Justin, are you really needing to do this in order to feel like a proper Christian? Are you doubting your faith? Do you need this constant 'persecution' to justify yourself? Just wondering.

I always thought you were on pre-mod for being incredibly rude and insulting to people. I would never yikes you Justin. I think it is far better that people see you for exactly what you are.