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Boring ramble!

Post 41

Willem

Let me guess ... Robert Palmer? Anyways, I didn't know he was deceased...


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Post 42

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

smiley - huh What does being deceased have to do with it?

smiley - mouse


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Post 43

zendevil


smiley - grrsmiley - grrsmiley - grr SO IT WAS ME?? So who objected? You can download song lyrics anywhere, i did this from http://www.letssingit.com

(don't bother, lots of annoying pop-ups)

There are hundreds of them!!!

And speaking as someone who has lived with musicians most of her adult life PLUS personally met Robert Palmer, i know he would be highly amused by this!

I still want to know who yikesed it; i cannot believe that the mods have so much time on their hands that a couple of lines from a song will be worth their while when there are examples of hatred & unpleasantness flying around which must take up a lot of time!

How very silly!

zdt

smiley - musicalnote "Life is very..... short & there's no time for? Fussing & fighting my friends?"smiley - musicalnote

NOT a quote, just something i happen to be listening to right now;but i changed the pundctuation, so it's mine now!copyright TVS 2004smiley - evilgrinmusic


Boring ramble!

Post 44

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

It has *always* been against the house rules to post song lyrics on h2g2. Just because other sites allow illegal activity doesn't mean that it's okay here. Just because many people don't realize it's illegal doesn't mean it's okay here.

*I* yikesed it.

a) all volunteers are instructed to do so when they see copyright violations. if the community is not able to police this matter ourselves, we've been told that we would have to go back to active rather than passive moderation -- where every single last post has to be read by a moderator, which is what we had when the BBC first came on board.

b) I'm a writer -- I certainly don't like it when I see people copying my writing without my permission (much less payment), and it's important to me that I live in a world that protects my copyrights, and therefore those of other people as well.

I'm sorry this upsets you, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS illegal.


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Post 45

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

Just so you know, there *are* contexts in which it is perfectly legal to quote from song lyrics here on h2g2.

If it's one line or less, it's pretty unlikely to be moderated. Copyright law essentially takes into account what % of the whole the bit you're quoting is -- i.e., it's one thing to quote a paragraph from a book, it's another thing entirely to quote a verse from a song, even though the latter may have fewer words. On h2g2, the moderators also take into account what % of the post or entry the quote comprises -- i.e., a post which is almost entirely copyright-protected material is more likely to be moderated than a post which is almost entirely created by the h2g2 researcher.

If it's a larger chunk (like a whole verse), pretty much the only way to meet the "Fair Use" part of copyright law within the purview of h2g2 is to use the quote within the context of a review or analysis -- we have both guide entries and conversation threads here on hootoo that do just that.


Boring ramble!

Post 46

Kaz

Hi all

I am happy, just got home from running my third moot!! It was great, I am getting more relaxed and better at standing up and speaking. I am even begining to plan my own talk later in the year - on the relations between the sacred and insects and other arthropods.

I am feeling happy and relaxed, I hope things are going well for you Terri. Couldn't ring last week as I get so scared about the moot, but its over now! We'll liase one evening this week or soon.

PCandy, if you are having problems with the phone company, I can ring you. Will be staying up for a little while, let me knnow if you need to talk.

Bloody copyright, can't even quote lyrics in conversation anymore - poo.


Boring ramble!

Post 47

zendevil


BUT i am NOT performing them, all this is covered by the Performing Rights Society, of which many of my musician friends are members! I am quoting them & acknowledging the source, which, if anything, is free publicity for the writer!

The whole business of copyright is being completely stood on its head because of the internet; of COURSE the author should be paid if the material is being used for financial gain (I write too you know!) BUT it is impossible to prevent people from quoting over the internet! What about the millions of private "Blogs"?

When i was writing for smiley - thepost i used loads of quotes, but was always very careful to footnote the sources; i checked in advance that this was legal & permissable within h2g2 & the BBC. Song lyrics have been quoted within my articles on many occasions, freely available from the musicians OWN sites! Go see "Hootoo Home of Today" archives, i spent many hours checking & annotating sources.

Anyway, Mikey, don't wish to start an argument on PC's space (or anywhere else for that matter) so will resist the urge to share any musical thoughts from now on, OK?

Thanks for saying it was you, i respect your opinion, but don't in this instance, share it, OK?

zdt (non-copyrighted name)


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Post 48

zendevil


Website of the Performing Right Society:

http://www.prs.co.uk/

zdt


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Post 49

psychocandy-moderation team leader

It was *my* posting which was moderated, and quite frankly, I could care less. I've got bigger fish to fry than to take it personally that someone "yikesed" me.

Kaz, I'll be around for a bit. I've got the phone bill semi-sorted, the local compnay has removed it and charged it back to the long distance company. I now get to dispute it with them.

If you wanted to ring me for a bit, I'll be up for a while. Havn't eaten yet, but I can nibble and talk at the same time. Don't like eating much this cloe to bedtime anyway.


Boring ramble!

Post 50

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

This is one of those things that is not an opinion, but fact. You can certainly still disagree with the law, but that doesn't change the law itself.

Copyright law as it currently stands has nothing to do with financial gain -- it is illegal whether the person makes money off of it or not. And it has nothing to do with whether the material is performed, reprinted on a website, or photocopied. It also has nothing to do with whether sources are given.

And even when the song lyrics are on the artists websites, that still does *not* in of itself give permission for other people to duplicate them, unless the owners of the lyrics (who are quite often *not* the same as the performers) specifically state that such permission is given.

There's a big difference between "quoting" and "copying". I tried to explain that in my earlier post, perhaps I was not clear enough? It has a lot to do with the amount of material, the type of material, and the context.

And when it comes to songs, the issue of rights is even more complicated -- having rights to perform a song is *not* the same as having the rights to publish the lyrics. And yes, legally, anything you post here on h2g2 is considered "published".


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Post 51

Kaz

I know I should know this Cindy, but could you tell me the code, I have the number starting 773 and I don't know what I should put in front of that.


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Post 52

psychocandy-moderation team leader

to dial in you use "001", then the "773" bit. smiley - smiley


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Post 53

Kaz

Cindy, I finally found something on the internet
apparently I ring 001 to get to the US and then 312 to get to Chicago
is that right?


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Post 54

zendevil


Lets not bicker here, Mikey, not that i have any wish to do so at all, but it's PC's page, if you want to continue, please go to mine.

Ok, official Robert Palmer website is:

http://www.robertpalmer.com/

To which i have just sent the following email:

<<<Hello,

I have been a great fan of Robert Palmer for many years & was fortunate enough to see him live on several occasions.

Whilst on an internet forum & listening to "Addictions 2" I sent a message quoting some lyrics, since they seemed to express what i was trying to say beautifully (as is usual with RP!)

The post was moderated on the grounds that i may have infringed copyright.

Since lyrics are freely available on many internet sites and I was NOT performing them AND acknowledged the source, I hope I have not infringed copyright?

This is the last thing I would wish to do. The man was wonderful & leaves a legacy of songs which I would imagine he would wish to be remembered.

Please advise.

Thanks,

Terri Stirling.>>>

smiley - ok?

zdt*hopefully having paid for sins*


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Post 55

psychocandy-moderation team leader

Terri, my dear... it was *my* posting of the Hoodoo Gurus lyrics bits which were moderated. It wasn't you. I'm not sorry I did it, and frankly don't care about cpyright law. I wasn't claiming ownerhip or contributory factors, just sharing some words someone else had written which summed up my feelings. Mikey was offended at it, and yikesed it. So be it. Not worth debating, I hope.

I'd sure hate to have to unsubscribe from my own journal entry. smiley - winkeye

But anyway, it was my own quote which was removed, and which I've neither the time nor the inclination to modify. You read them, I know them to heart, and that's enough. So, let's end all the worry and bickering here and use this journal entry for its intended purpose... for me to whinge and carry on about how badly my life is sucking just now!! smiley - tongueout


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Post 56

hellboundforjoy

"I'd sure hate to have to unsubscribe from my own journal entry."
Can't unsubscribe from your own journal. I tried once and it told me I couldn't. I know I'm taking your post too literally but I just had to say anyway.

smiley - hug Sorry to hear your life is sucking. I was behind in my conversations and didn't see the end of this thread until after I say your new journal entry. I guess I was out of the loop about your and Krispy but I'm sorry to hear about it anyways. You seem very resiliant though.


Boring ramble!

Post 57

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

Actually, if you click the button to remove a journal entry from your personal space, it automatically unsubscribes you from the thread when it does so.

But as PC said, it would be a shame to have to do such a thing.


Boring ramble!

Post 58

zendevil

You can delete the Journal entry from your own space but you can't remove it & pretend itnever existed 'cos other peopole may have contrubuted to it & wish to continue doing so.

Anyway, it won't come to that. I'm sure none of us on here have any desire to create extra tedium & pain for PC, who has enough on her plate right now.

Personally, i am looking forward to being contacted by the Robert palmer fan club!smiley - winkeye

Don't know the Hoodoo Gurus PC, tell me more! The sound like a spin-off of hootoo's own Guru's, surely not! What next; The Italics<musicalnote "lets put a whole new slant on life!"smiley - musicalnote

zdtsmiley - peacedove


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