h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Jordan.

Some researchers have behaved like naughty children in the school yard. We resorted to making fun of the Apparition and Annie when presenting them with facts AND offering the olive branch REPEATEDLY brought not one iota of change...

I'm not really interested in that, because as far as I'm aware, not one of the participants in this charade - except perhaps Matholwch, who's wise warning I am echoing - can be considered blameless. I don't really care who started it, I don't care who is responsible for what. Jordan.

Whether you are interested or not that *is* how I feel about the situation and if you dont care about what *each* of us are going through why are you here trying to create peace? I have my theories but I'd rather have your answer too.

Several threads wih condemnation and threats of varying strenght are not appropriately dealt with by one halfhearted (and Im being generous here) apology. Certainly not when further asspertions are cast upon the character of those involved in pretty short order afterwards.

First, I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about some earlier apology, or the one which Della posted recently? Because I don't see any comments being made after that one.

That you dont know what Im talking about is a certainty so you can stop scratching your head over that now Jordan That you're not really interested in actual circumstnces is something that is also quite clear. I was, indeed, refering to an earlier "apology".



I do welcome and accept Annies attempts to apologise. I would welcome even more an apologetic and honest attitude carried over into to her posts about the situation and those involved.

I accept that perfectly, on the condition that you include not only Della and her family, but yourself, and everyone else involved.

Jordan I dont really care on what proviso or even if you accept what I say Im only trying to deal with my interpretations of the facts in this matter. You have stated your views but you would be mistaken if for a minute you belive that yours are going to be accepted by everyone.

I can be relatavist but we do need to stick to the rules we devise. If you think Ive broken them you know where the yikes button is dont you If someone says that 2+2=4 they ought to stand by what they say and not surreptitiously rehash the *facts* at a latter point to suit there own argument. If they say 2+2=5 they ought to do the same and be big enough to say my bad after they've called eveyrone in the =4 camp an idiot or some other insult once they have been shown that they were wrong.

As I have tried to explain in the past forgiving and forgetting is a much more attractive option when the offending party does not re-offend in short order and does not pointedly express a total lack of remorse for the offence caused.

What stuns me is that so many people are professing a belief in the perpetrator's innocence.

How many people exactly have said or hinted that they think Member is innocent in this business?

Remember that I have stated my disaproval of some things he has said and the way he's said them in the past, but each situation is an individual thing.

The situation is nasty. There are requests for apologies, misconceptions, hasty accusations and a heck of a lot of bitchiness (and I'm not pointing to ANYONE, but to the general behavior) contributing to it. Its perpetuation serves only to degrade the participants further; the whole thing is degenerate, and does nothing to improve anything or anyone in the slightest.
Neither do I care about offending more people - I mean, honestly, I haven't referred to anyone specifically, except for Member and Della! Anyone else would have to be wilfully misunderstanding me to possibly extract anything personal.


A lovely sentiment but have you realised that by choosing not to be specific and name names you can be seen to be tarring everyone with the same brush?

I have in the past tried to improve things you may not care to look to find the proof or take my word for it, so its a little galling when someone arrives late in the day and presumes to tell me whats what without a full appreciation of all that has gone on.

There are only two solutions that I am willing to consider.

Who died and put you in charge?
Jordan we live in universe that is chaotic (in my subjective opinion anyway) the sooner you get used to it the better. The books you read may suggest otherwise but I suggest you take a look around...

Either all involved parties (ALL!!!) apologize unreservedly for their own part in this, and everyone gets on spiffingly from then on, or this STOPS IMMEDIATELY and is never referred to again.

See the big problem with not being clear about your accusations earlier is that people arent sure what they are apologising for. There will be some not willing to apologise for things they have not done. While others like me wont mind that but I do refuse to apologise for some of the things I *have* done which you may not like, but that is not important, what is important is I dont think I need to apologise for them.

You tell me what Im apologising for and you will see what I mean.

So I'm going to interject, to say your collective behaviour is best likened to a playground dispute, and that I'm not going to tolerate it.

Good for you Jordan, let people know what you feel, think and want.

What if people dont do what you want, you arent going to tolerate this so what are you going to do?


If you end up on the latter side, you will be facing the collective opprobium of those on the former.

Have a look at the "please read" thread, there are more like it. Now I know which camp you think you are in but dont think that that camp is as big as the other one just because most reseachers are reasonable most of the time. Keep your eyes open and you'll see how many people like to give their own a axe a little grind now and again.

Try telling Matowlch how glad you are that we have anti-biotics

Respectable people do not aim to be insulting and contrary; they do not flog dead horses simply to cause agitation.

You're right that's the work of annoying idiots, but being respectable and being an annoying idiot are not mutually exclusive.

If you're going to be with me, you're agreeing to conclude events as outlined above (in a mass apology or mutual shunning of the issue).

Hang-on that seems like the very offer I have made three or four times, but Ive never been willing to offer it unilaterally and if someone breaks the deal then it is off on both sides. Ive even held my tongue for a fe days but repeated breaking of a deal means that the spirit let alone the leter of it is not being observed.

I could make a deal with myself not to sink into it again but Im not that demanding of myself and as you maywell know by now I like arguing. Im not whineing about the fight if I were Id have the good sense to stop. Theres no anger *I like it* Im not contrary Im different all the things I get on my soap-box about mean something to me I dont just get stuck in for no reason.


Optionally, you will proactively assist me in silencing - yes, silencing, the essence of moderation - objectors. If you're in the latter camp, your actions (intentionally or not) are going to hurt me - people here have earned my respect, and it will be a real struggle to retain it if you insist on sowing dischord.

I will not help you or anyone else silence anyone! I even tried to keep Oetzi from being kicked out. Im not sure if I have your respect but if joining you posse is the only way to keep it do tell me where to send it back to and I'll gladly pay the postage.

I will protest what anyone one says if I disagree with them and even allie myself with others for that purpose, but censorship, never.

one love

I rarely choose to put my self ona a sisde as I rarely go along with enough of one sides sentiments to feel entirely comfortable there, but if you really want you can choose for me

Well, a couple of things:

It seems that the latter option has been accepted, albeit tacitly. People are no longer talking about it.

I was positively furious about what was going on, and to an extent, I still am. Really. I was angry that people were making themselves look so nasty. I'm NOT giving examples because I don't see the point in placing blame.

I'm sure you understand. I'm reluctant to ressurrect the thing now that it has died a natural death, so if you want to talk about it further I suggest that you do so off-site.

Otherwise, we can agree to disagree broadly. Let sleeping dogs lie, as they say.

Hmm... There's a comment you have - 'One Love' - which appears at the end of many of your postings. I think it's particularly appropriate here. Remember that I'm angry universally because, from my position, I can see the flaws and justifications of each of the participants in the torid affair, and because I like and respect most of them too.



- Jordan