h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've been enjoying reading this conversation... very deep. I did find one point the Josh made that I want to offer a different opinion on...

He says that the whole point of being a Christian is to escape from death. I think that it is more to get a relationship with God/Jesus. To worship them. And then to be a light to the world. Sure, heaven is a nice bennifit, but if you become a Christian just to escape Hell, you are doing it for more of a selfish reason.

Hope I'm not intruding or anything...

peace.

Not at all! (at least as far as I am concerned)

What are your beliefs? Come share!

Theory is correct. Perhaps I did not specify that.

Emily- What happens to someone after they reach Nirvana? To they become nothingness, continue living or what?

I'm not quite sure, to tell the truth. I think the key thing is that we can't know, because we haven't got there yet. The whole idea of reincarnation is based on an 'essence' type of idea - a bit like the soul, I suppose - and it is this that is incarnate in a succession of bodies. Once the 'essence' has achieved enlightenment and the state of Nirvana, it no longer needs to undergo experience in its various incarnations and exists in its own form, in harmony with the universe.

I think.

Christianity is very different. We believe that humans in and of themselves are incapable of any lasting happiness and are unfit for the presence of God. We do not have to work to get to heaven because we are incapable of working hard enough to get the heaven. God made himself flesh in the form of Jesus. The reason Jesus died on the cross, is so that he could bear the punishment for all our sins. We must acknowledge that God is God, that we are forever separated from Him and we can only bridge that gap by accepting Jesus's gift to us.

The gift being Jesus taking on your sin... which then makes you clean in God's eyes (instead of being the ugly sinners that we are).

peace.

Strider Taoism is not non-monotheistic. Seeing all the quotes are Biblical here are some from The Tao (pronounced 'Dao' meaning The Way):-

The Way is perfect like a great space,
Without lack, without excess.
Because of grasping and rejecting,
You cannot attain it.

Do not pursue conditioned existence;
Do not abide in acceptance of emptiness.
In oneness and equality,
Confusion vanishes of itself.
Stop activity and return to stillness,
And that stillness will even be more active.

Only stagnating in duality,
How can you recognize oneness?
If you fail to penetrate oneness,
Both places lose their function.

Banish existence and you fall into existence;
Follow emptiness and you turn your back on it.

Excessive talking and thinking
Turn you from harmony with the Way.
Cut off talking and thinking,
And there is nowhere you cannot penetrate.

Too much talking and thinking
is a manifestation of fear.
The wise accept the mystery
and become silent.

The Tao Te Ching is more than 2500 years old and was writen by Laozi ( Lao-tzu and Lao-tse are all the same name and mean Old Master)

Alji

I'm sorry. Forgive my ignorance. I was mistaken.

The quotes are very interesting. They coincide with alot of Jewish mysticism.

-Strider

I've been reading this thread with some interest, and I thought it was about time I threw my tuppence into the pot.

I am a convinced atheist. This is not a position that I have adopted lightly, I have spent time thinking through the issues and have realised that I cannot conceptualise of a god within my understanding of the universe. My view is that a god figure was a good idea when we didn't understand the world around us. It acted as a bit of comfort blanket, i.e. its winter time, the days are getting shorter, quick someone sacrifice a goat to make sure the sun comes back... Well low and behold. Now we have a vastly better understanding of the universe and our knowledge base is getting bigger at an exponential rate. Sooner or later we will have a fully functioning model as to how the universe was created, how it grew and evolved and how, possibly, it may end. Once we can adequately explain the universe, the role of god as creator, explainer, protector etc becomes redundant.

I will accept that there is a down side to this view. I have no reward (or punishment) to look forward to after death. At its basic level my only role in existing is to procreate and further the success of my species. And that this role is a role that I share with every other species on the planet. Rather a grim outlook on life? Yes for sure, but its the only one that makes any sense to me.

I think there's a harmful philosophy that many subscribe to that says "you believe what you believe, and I believe my own way and we'll both be right." Regardless of what the truth is, there is only one truth. I hate to be gloomy, but when the world ends, only one of us is going to be right.

We're not ugly in God's eyes; He made us in His own image. But we "fall short of the Glory of God" (that's somewhere in Romans, I'll look it up at home.)

Josh: have you ever seen the film Dogma? Although you will likely find it offensive for many good reasons, there is a valid point (in my opinion) which it addresses. The notion is that it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something. The idea is that the shear fact that you have some sort of belief and opinion on the matter, even if it be that there is no power, is enough. I personally, don't go in for all that "saved" or "not saved" business. That "right" or "wrong" business. In core, every person contains both amazing and deplorable aspects. There are no "sinners" and "pious." People are all people. I just prefer to follow my traditions and beliefs, and you follow yours

also, Greydesk. Welcome. Hooray, another opinion!

The way CS Lewis describes this situation in 'The Last Battle' is very similar, I think. There is a Calomene soldier who has worshipped Tash (his god) all his life, rather than Aslan (bear in mind that this is Christian allegory - Aslan = Christ). However, at the end of time Aslan whisks him off to his idea of heaven because the soldier was praying with good intent to Tash, and so his prayers were received by Aslan himself. A children's book, yes, but I think it has a nice way of putting an idea of life after death across.

Thank you St. Emily, that was my point exactly, I was just to illiterate to convey it properly.

-Strider

OK Josh, maybe I am beyond the pale by your definitions. I've sat down, thought about it and rejected the very notion of a god as pointless. That's fair enough I've made my choice, I suffer the consequences (or not as the case may be).

What happens to all the other poor saps who do believe in a god, just not your god? In your version of the *afterlife* are they keeping me company with the toasting forks etc?

I just had a thought...

Let's try to maybe make (keep) this thread an informative place (a place to learn about different religions/beliefs)... not a debate. Unless I miss my guess, no one is going to change thier mind about what they believe, regardless what is said. It is interesting comparing the way we believe (and that is what makes humanity special, we all have the power to make our own choices about life)...

Just thought I'd mention it...

Howdy GreyDesk... what's up?

peace.

Sounds good by me. As far as I'm concerned this is now a venue for religious discussion and information.

-Strider

*grin... -> yawn*
Man... I should know better then to be up past midnight on here...

peace.

Hinduism has one supreme God, Brahman. It accepts all faiths as paths to the One God. All the other gods are created whereas Brahman is the un-created. The demigods are like angels and devils. Lord Krishna was an incarnation of Brahman, in other words the son of God.

"...many are the paths of men, but they all in the end come to Me."

Bhagavad Gita

Whosoever desires to worship whatever deity (using whatever name, form, and method) with faith, I make their faith steady in that very deity. Endowed with steady faith they worship that deity, and fulfill their wishes through that deity. Those wishes are, indeed, granted only by Me. Such (material) gains of these less intelligent human beings are temporary. The worshipers of Devas go to Devas, but My devotees come to Me. The ignorant think of Me, the Para-Brahman, as having no form or personality and I can take (any physical) form; because (these) people are not being able to comprehend My supreme imperishable and incomparable existence

Bhagavad Gita

Bhagavad Gita means The Song of God and was writen in Sanskrit over 2500 years ago.

Jewish Kabbalistic teaching says,
There is no single substance existing in the world, whether it be that which we experience through the senses, or that which we perceive through the mind, which is not comprised in the Creator. Everything emanates from Him. Therefore, what we know as contrary, or unrelated substances, in Him, are but one unified Substance.

The soul is the animating element of living things contrasted to the physical body, which is the soul's vehicle. The Hebrew words generally translated as "soul" (nefesh, neshamah, and ruakh) refer to breath. This accords with the fact that in the Hebrew Bible and later Jewish writings the soul is associated primarily with respiration, narrowly signifying the life force.

This is the same as Chi (or Ki) or vital energy (Zen and martial arts) in Taoism espouses a calm, reflective and mystic view of the world steeped in the beauty and tranquillity of nature.

All mystery religions have similar beliefs because they all look for God or Illumination (Nirvna), in the same place. To all those who say 'It's just an illusion, a figment of your imagination, don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

Alji

Let me add another voice. I'm pagan, so I worship a Goddess - I see her as Mother Nature - and her horned consort,(son/husband) and the various other deities that go with it. I'm not sure what I believe will happen after death. Most believe in reincarnation, but I prefer to think of my body doing some good for the environment ie decomposing into food for various plants and animal life, while I get the peace and quiet life does not bring us.