h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello Perium,

By your invitation, here I am. Let me just first say that I'm sorry for having been offensive. Upsetting someone is really the last thing I want to do, and I hope that we can come to some understanding. I've just read your personal space and you seem like an entirely decent chap. I'd much rather be your friend than someone whom you think of as insensitive, thoughtless or scornful.

I see that we have some things in common. We both started in the south and then moved West. I left Dallas and lived in Santa Fe for six years, going to college and teaching. (I wrote the Guide Entry on Santa Fe!) We both drive Fords. I had to leave my '69 Econoline back at home, hopefully in good hands, while I run off across the globe. That van was harder to part with than... certain humans. No, it's not a Mustang. I know.

Not to mention our shared interest in religions/FFFF stuff.

Anyway, on topic I've quoted your last post from the love/hate thread (not a lot of love there, I've noticed):

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Naturally. Again I apologize.

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I never used the word "yank". I certainly never called you one.

I grew up hearing the word "Yankee" as a description, not necessarily perjorative, of people from the north-east, specifially New York. The fact that they've named one of their baseball teams the "New York Yankees" does not a little to support that usage. That usage is the only thing I was pointing out.

I understand that overseas usage is different from southern usage. Overseas, apparently both words (especially the shorter one) are used disparagingly to mean "any American". I was really just pointing out that, inside the states, there are other usages of the word "Yankee" (not "yank"). The longer version of the word was also the form to which Lucinda had referred in quoting Alistair Cook's "Letter From America" from the BBC, which didn't seem to offend you.

I hope I've sufficiently accounted for myself on that point.

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Well, here we disagree on a more fundamental level. You say that the tension is something that's not to laugh at. I believe that the appropriate way of dealing with tension is through laughter. Physiologically, that's what laughter is: a release of tension. How do you think it should be dealt with? What attitude should I take towards what I see as superfluous Confererate loyalties? I think it's time to get over the Civil War. It was a long time ago, and there's no point in still feeling bad about it. If you think I'm wrong, then please tell me; I'm all ears.

Please don't be upset though, because I'm not trying to be disrespectful or scornful. I'm totally willing to discuss.

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Well, as I've said, I didn't bring up the "yank" thing in any way other than as a point of linguistic interest. The best way of defusing potentially offensive language is to discuss it clinically. Have you ever read an essay on the etymology of the F-word, for example? It's impossible to be offended by the word when it's being talked about in that context.

At least that's the theory. Since you were offended, it's obviously not perfect in practice, and again, I apologize.

As for the southern accent, I've got nothing against it, and I wasn't trying to be rude about it. I was using a voice for comic effect. I could have just been very detatched and scholarly in making my point about word usage, but that would not have illustrated as strongly that people speak differently in different place, and that that's FINE. I often use humour to make points. The fact that I laugh about something does NOT mean that I hold it in contempt.

I could easily caricature they way Enlish is spoken in the South, in New York, in the South West, in England, in Australia, in Africa, and in Canada. Does that mean I find all of those people somehow inferior? No! Inferior to whom? Anyone who knows me in person could make fun of the way I talk, too! Vive le difference!

If a Jewish stand up comic makes use of Jewish stereotypes in his routine, do you take that to mean that he hates or is not proud of his people?

I look forward to your reply.

GTBacchus

Part of the problem stems from the fact that I have heard the term Yankee/Yank used in a sneering fashion by way to many Europeans lately to be anything more than annoyed/offended/p**sed every time I see it. I made the statment that anyone rude enough to call me a Yank/Yankee to my face is an hole and I'll be the first to call them that to their face.

Lucinda I think has heard my comment about Yank/Yankee and in fact the moderators are supposedly on the watch to edit it out whenever they see it.

Why does it p**s me off? The sneering manner in which it was used. I wouldn't call someone from England a Brit to his/her face. Not unless I knew them, then I'd probably still call them an hole, but then as endearment.

Thing is with type, emotions don't come over too clear and a guy who is sick and tired of being called a yank tends to make it known whenever they run across it.

I think that that clears up a lot of my objection to this thing.

As to the other comment I made, you know that in the south the term Yank/Yankee has been used quiet a lot as a negative derogatory term. That's what I meant by you should know better. I guess a part of me was thinking that you were infering that Texas wasn't really a part of the Civil War. That you were somehow exempt and that you don't use the term Yankee in deragatory context. I know better than that.

I'm not one of those confederate rights people. Just proud of my roots, and sick of stuck up Europeans.

Uh... does that mean you're not mad at me anymore? I'm sure I've made it clear that I'm not a "stuck up European", but I can't tell whether we're understanding each other. Sorry.

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I certainly wasn't inferring that Texas wasn't part of the civil war. If that were the case, then I would consider myself much *less* allowed to make fun of the confederate mentality. The point I was making is that I can say things about my own home that an outsider couldn't say. I knew a few people in my youth who really did want the South to "rise again". I thought they were crazy.

I *don't* use the term Yankee in a derogatory context. I don't use *any* terms derogatorily (except maybe hole), because I generally don't like to derogate people. (Is "derogate" a word?) I really *can't* use a word to disparage an entire class or people, because there isn't a class of people with whom I have a particular problem.

I grew up in Dallas, among fairly liberal people who didn't have any problem with northerners, so I was *not* exposed to the perjorative use of that word. I honestly thought, until today, that in the south, it was a fairly benign synonym for "person from the north". That's what it's always meant to me, although I knew that overseas it was applied, with scorn, to all Americans.

I guess I should have known that any word that has any potential to be used as an insult would be adapted to that purpose. Hence the constant shifting of names that we are allowed by political-correctness to apply to black Americans. Here in Africa, they don't mind the terms "black" and "white". In parts of America, you can really upset people by calling an "African-American" a "black person".

As a fan of language, I find this sort of thing fascinating, but I'm not at all sure you're interested in that angle, so I'll shut up about it. Hopefully you're gathered that I'm not out to upset anyone.

pax,

GTB

Yeah, all fine.

Thing is that I'm sick of hearing it from these self important Europeans, and when someone from America starts saying it(whatever the intentions) I become .

Its hard to see where someone is coming from when they speak in jest over the computer, you can't see their face to see what they meant or how serious they are.

So in any case have a on me, its all just Whiskey Under the Bridge right