h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello Della,

Some time ago, I stumbled across a conversation of yours concerning Roman Catholicism, and added some thoughts of my own to try and help you out.

I re-read your postings, and it dawned on me that perhaps you were confused (like so many non-Catholics, and even many Catholics) about the role of Mary in Catholic practices. In particular, you seemed worried that Catholics appear to worship Mary.

This is not true. Catholics recognise that there is only one God, and that therefore only He can be worshipped. We do not worship Mary. The prayer "Hail Mary" is not a prayer to Mary, but is an intercession - that is, it is said to ask Mary to pray for us and with us. In the same way, we ask the saints to pray with us, but never pray to them.

Sorry I dragged this up after so many months, but I feel that it's an important point. If you knew this already, then apologies for bothering you. I just felt the need to clarify things for you.

MSC.

Thank you for your clarification,Cornice - I am reading a book of prayers and hymns by St Thomas Aquinas, and they're *wonderful*! But I admit,I skipped the one to Mary - I still feel a bit edgy about it, years and years of Protestantism, and a Presbyterian-raised mother..

Forgive my ignorance, but . . .

Do Protestants in general and Presbyterians in particular really have problems with the Catholic stance on Mary? If so, what is the cause/reason for their problems? I've often thought it went back to 15th century Europe (and even earlier), with the splitting of the Church into various denominations.

The prayers and hymns by St Thomas Aquinas are wonderful - you should read the ones about Mary.

Are you familiar with the Magnificat? Very few people, when they read St. Luke's Gospel, pay much attention to 1:46-56, but those verses are quite beautiful.

But even better is listening to the Magnificat in a musical setting. If you can, try to listen to the Bach or Vivaldi Magnificats.

MSC

In my experience of Presbyterians (Scottish/NZ ones), they have a big problem with Catholics in general - the Mary thing is just one detail... American fundamentalists are just as dogmatic.. I read a book about 5 years back, by an Amwrican Catholic priest, replying to fundamentalist criticisms - I learned a lot about the Catholic view of something I've read about elsewhere, namely Montsegur, the Cathars and the events of 13th century France..
My mother used to say that Catholics were just bad evil people. She got this from her grandfather, who was a Scottish/Canadian Presbyterian minister who rode around the Otago goldfields in NZ, in the 1880s. When I first met catholics, I expected them to have horns and a tail, but of course, Catholics are NOT bad, evil people at all! I'll look at the things you recommend, Cornice.
Della.(I'm still not a Catholic, but.)

In my experience of Presbyterians (Scottish/NZ ones), they have a big problem with Catholics in general - the Mary thing is just one detail... American fundamentalists are just as dogmatic.. I read a book about 5 years back, by an Amwrican Catholic priest, replying to fundamentalist criticisms - I learned a lot about the Catholic view of something I've read about elsewhere, namely Montsegur, the Cathars and the events of 13th century France..
My mother used to say that Catholics were just bad evil people. She got this from her grandfather, who was a Scottish/Canadian Presbyterian minister who rode around the Otago goldfields in NZ, in the 1880s. When I first met catholics, I expected them to have horns and a tail, but of course, Catholics are NOT bad, evil people at all! I'll look at the things you recommend, Cornice.
Della.(I'm still not a Catholic, but.)

You forgot Johova's witnesses. They have a finatical dislike if cathloics

Everyone seems to dislike Catholics. I've noticed the whole Jehovah's Witness thing. Once, some called round at our house. We were quite receptive to them, but when they noticed my sister's Crucifix, they were quite quick to leave. They haven't been back either - they seem to be avoiding our house, although they do visit our neighbours. Did they think we were going to burn them at the stake or something? It is extremely perplexing and quite offensive.

Catholicism is essentially no different to any other Christian denomination (at least not now that we've stopped burning all the so-called heretics).

I have a friend who'sa johova's witness. Most evertthing they have been taught is bad and that they shouldn't, they see in "chthloic prctices"

There is a concept that works very well, America uses it and the Nazi's used it. In-order for there to be an [unified] "us", there has to be a "them".

For Johova's witnesses you're "them"

You're right, apparition! I have a friend who was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness, it put her off religion for life and forever, because all they were taught was fear and avoidance! There are *some* denominatins I am just not interested in learning about, JWs being one. (Michael Jackson, need I say more?) But I am sure yr friend is nevertheless a nice person...

But as you say, people are brought up to be prejudiced against people of other races/religions/nationalities. I know I was, and I hope I've overcome most of it.

He is a nice peoson and like you friend drifting away from his religion.
He was my best man

But how do "Catholic practises" differ to those of any other denomination to make JWs, for example, think of us as bad people, when they don't see such things in other denominations?

Hi, Cornice... "Catholic practices"... To my mother and other Presbyterians of her generations, the sticking points seemed to be:
1. Confession to a priest
2. Praying to saints
3. Worship of Mary.
To me, as an Anglican who has spent 25+ years in Protestantism, a large chunk of it as what's best described as American-style "fundamentalism", #1, doesn't bother me at all, I see nothing against it. #s 2 and 3, however - well, we've discussed 3 and I admit I still have a problem with #2. Maybe apparition knows of other things, such as what bother his friend...

Hi, Cornice... "Catholic practices"... To my mother and other Presbyterians of her generations, the sticking points seemed to be:
1. Confession to a priest
2. Praying to saints
3. Worship of Mary.
To me, as an Anglican who has spent 25+ years in Protestantism, a large chunk of it as what's best described as American-style "fundamentalism", #1, doesn't bother me at all, I see nothing against it. #s 2 and 3, however - well, we've discussed 3 and I admit I still have a problem with #2. Maybe apparition knows of other things, such as what bother his friend...

From memory this late at night.
Priests - A catholic invention (to them)
and things like praying to a cross and using the cross which they claim equaits to praying to an graven image.
They also don't like the trinity. They belive that the three are seperate entities. From memory the holy spirit is an angel (or something like that). Jesus the son is just that, th son of GOD.

They take the bible extreemly literal.

But we don't take the bible literally at all. About the only miracle we take as read is the Resurrection, which is central to ALL Christian denominations. A lot of the other miracles can be explained by natural phenomena, therefore we accept that they were probably not supernatural events.

We don't pray to a cross. We don't pray to anybody but God. We don'y pray to Mary, we don't pray to Saints. We believe, like all other Christians, that there is only one God to whom we can pray.

Who believe that the members of the Trinity are seperate entities? It was a bit unclear. Catholics don't - perhaps this causes great dislike amongst other denominations. Actually, the Catholic stance on the Trinity is very complicated; I'm not sure I could adequately explain it.

Also, to whom are Priests a Catholic invention? I feel sure that I could reply to that point, if only I knew who thought what about them. In any event, they probably are - and I apologise to anyone I offend here - but the Roman Catholic Church is the oldest Christian Church (at least, the Catholic Church under the leadership of the Descendant of Peter i.e. the Pope is).

*goes away to hide from all the people he's just offended with that last remark - sorry everyone; I'll try to get over this pro-Catholic stance I keep adopting*

BTW Della, How are you getting on with the prayers of St. Thomas of Aquinas?

I think what apparition meant,was that he was detailing the misapprehensions that the Jehovahs' Witnesses have.

I could be wrong, Cornice, but I think the Eastern Orthodox churches
might dispute the claim of Catholicism tobe the oldest church! My stance is: I am attracted to Catholicism, very much! Especially when I compare it with the American-style fundamentalism I began in.

Re Aquinas' prayers, it was a library book so I had to return it, but I copied one out - truly awe-inspiring.

Ofcourse I was talking about Johova's witnesses. My message was directly after della's message. They view the cathloc preisthood as more a beurocracy than a church