h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I din't really want to get back into this on the TGD thread because as you say the conversation has moved on a bit now but I did want to pick up on it (now that I can see what it was)

You said (more or less) that thinking black people aren't as clever as white is the same as thinking gays are sinful in a way that heteros aren't but I think you're misunderstanding the nature of believing something to be sinful for a christian... or at least you have a very different understanding to me.

For a Catholic (like my mum) we're all sinful. A gay man is sinful in a particular way that she is not and she will know, by knowing that he is gay, that he is a sinner in that particular way *but* that doesn't mean he's a worse sinner than her or that she's morally superior because she wouldn't necessarily say that homosexuality was worse than pride (to pick a random example) so that's why I don't think it's necessarily bigoted because although he is a sinner, so is everyone else so there's no reason to treat or think of him differently to anyone else. The only difference is that you can definitely pinpoint at least one sin and (in most cases) know that the sinner isn't repentant

Oh, I understand the way that Christians(esp Catholics) think about sinners etc. I just think it is as intellectual devoid of any sort of sensible rational basis as believing the 'provable' comments I said about black people i.e. you can twist logic, ignore any rational evidence to the contrary to believe what you want to believe.

I really do not care on what basis your mothers believes about gay people are based. If I had similar views I would be a bigot because I haven't simply listened to blokes in frocks telling me what to believe and therefore can't hide behind a religious belief.

The fact that she believes it is a sin and unnatural when it is patently not gives me every right to call her a bigot...it might actually(but I VERY much doubt make her think about her beliefs).

Oh and on a more base level the views of the Christian church are bigotted regarding homosexuality. There is a reason I say Archbigots.

A system that hides bigotry behind 'theology' and that really is where all this sin stuff is from - Celibate men from the middle ages deciding on what actually is true and false when they haven't even the faintest idea of the most basic of science theories and those views still being followed in this day and age by basically sheep - if the views of that 'made-up fictional' belief system is bigotted when viewed against what is the accepted natrual norm then anyone who decided to take those veiws as truth are also bigots by virtue of that.

I am sure your mother is a lovely person...she seems to have brougth up a lovely daughter...however, her beliefs are still bigotted...her other views on sin and just medieval, out-of-date and wrong.

She would think of me as a sinner, having had nookie out of wedlock, I do not think I am a sinner but she can call me that. I think she is a bigot but she would not...however as a secular person with the same veiws would be called a bigot she has to accept that people will call her a bigot.

Fair enough. I acknowledge that she's prejudiced - she is after all pre-judging them - but I would hesitate to go as far as bigoted. But I do take your points on board

Bigot is a harsh word I know...but is prejudiced just a 'nicer' way of saying...?

Anyhoo, I didn't really get into the interesting comment about 'thought crimes'.

Your mother thinks it is wrong but would she go as far as stopping gay people having exactly the same rights as hetrosexuals?

People may say racist things but never ever stop black people(etc) being able to do anything a white person could do and yet they would be called racist...so is racism and gay bigotry a thought crime?

The laws do say that saying things that could incite violence, prejudice etc is illegal...but speaking your mind these days also seems to be very similar.

Ah, I know I'm being a bit evasive or trying to gloss over it slightly but for me prejudice is not quite the same as bigotry - it's in the same family and it's certainly not something to be condoned but bigotry is acting on a prejudice (including by speaking out against someone). Semantics probably and slightly ridiculous hair-splitting but hey, I was raised Catholic, I'm good at that!

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