h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It was sad to meet a supposed 'Christian' this morning in after-church coffee who said he 'didn't really believe in demons'. What on earth was this guy on, and why didn't he believe the Bible?

This chap (Robin was his name) used the old atheist line, that is to say that he claimed the term 'demon' was simply used to describe phenomena which were not fully understood in Biblical times, such as epilepsy or schitzophrenia.

Obviously this man was not genuinely saved at all, or he would not have displayed such an appauling knowledge of the things of God. In Matthew 8, we are told very clearly about how Jesus drove a legion of demons into a herd of pigs. If it was not so, the Bible would not have said so, and God is a liar.

Today, just like in Biblical times, we continue to see demons manifest themselves all around us today. Psychics, new age 'healers', astrologers, ouija boards, and 'psychopath' criminals wandering our streets. Sometimes medical science tends to devise fancy names to describe such phenomena, but that makes them no less real. They don't always come across as 'evil', but the Bible tells us that, as Christians our fight is not against humans but against powerful spiritual beings of evil (Ephesians 6:12) and that Satan and his angels can appear as angels of righteousness and light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).

And, just like in Biblical times, these things are forbidden today by the Law of God:

"There shall not be found among you any one ... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

It is very sad that most people choose to follow Satan to eternal destruction instead of following God to eternal life. Let us remember that we place our faith in our Creator, and that He has given us to Word to live by through all time. God does not lie.

Jesus love me. I know because the bible told me so.

I live my life by the Golden Rule, as Jesus would have wanted me to do.

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What? You've never heard of artistic license? Especially when writers are concerned. Jesus didn't write the Bible - men did. Many years after his death. And they interpreted what he said and did in the way it suited them.

Just like you do.

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Maybe. But you do.


az

Reality to Sam, over.

Come in Sam, over.

Are you reading me? Over.

It's no good Cap'n, we've lost him.

Az,

I am sorry to tell you that He only loves those who have been born again or those who will be born again, because he has chosen them to be so. He *hates* workers of inquity (Ps 5:5).

Sam,

And I am sorry to tell you that you are interpreting Christ's words to suit your own best interests.

I know Jesus loves me because the bible told me so.

Prove me wrong.

Jesus doesn't hate anyone.

Jesus is LOVE.

You seem incapable of loving anybody. You seem intent on being SPECIAL. I wonder why the sports car, the flash lifestyle, the holidays abroad don't make you feel 'special' enough without having to tell others they are somehow *less* than you because God hasn't singled them out as one of His Own.

I think you feel you need this crutch - something to try and make others see you as SPECIAL and CHOSEN in order to get through the day.

Because you KNOW you are just like the rest of us, don't you?

And you HATE that idea.

So you turn this into God's HATE against us.

Bit sad, doncha think?


az

Well Sam, Jesus believed in demons so Christians should believe in them. And I too am rather worried when I hear Christians saying that demons and the devil don't exist. After all, how are you supposed to fight against an enemy that you don't believe in? And Peter warned us that the devil is like a roaring lion and we must be ready to fight him.

Of course, some people do suffer from mental illnesses which have nothing to do with demons. And Christians should recognize that. Modern medicine has shown us a great deal and can help people with mental problems-but demonic possession can still occur.

However, I would be a tad careful about declaring who is saved and who is not. He very well might be saved (asked Jesus into his live and been born-again) but just been ignorant here. But just because he did not believe in demons does not necessarily mean he is not saved (although you might want to ask his views on other issues and see how he treats the Bible).

Azaz,

Where in the Bible did Jesus tell you he loves you?

I was brought up Christian and secure in the knowledge that Jesus loved me . . . sorry, wasn't told chapter and verse with my name in it. I took it as true at the time based on faith.

How do *you* know that Jesus loves you?

How do you know he isn't totally p*ssed off at you for taking his name in vain and using him for your own self-serving purposes?


az

>If it was not so, the Bible would not have said so, and God is a liar.

Can you show me proof that rabbits chew the cud as it says in the bible?

Hi sam,

A while ago, there was a tv program showing a live 'exorcism', I think it was called 'The Exorcism' or something like that. I believe that the exorcism was performed by an evangelical christian, they had a panel of 'experts' including various religious authorities, scientists and so-on. They had the subject wired up to some kind of brain scanning equipment, and the idea was to capture the moment of exorcism.

I was wondering if you saw it, what you thought of it. Have you seen any exorcisms carried out in real life?

Sam,

What is your evidence for the existance of demons? Please remember that I still do not accept scriptural references as evidence.

So you realy believe the apologue in Matthew 8:28-34, Mark 5:1-20 & Luke 8:26-39.
quote; 'Over the years most scholars have avoided explaining this problem of the Swine episode. Some try to reach back into the Greek myths for an answer: like the Persephone myth which has a herd of swine swallowed by the earth, but absolutely no other parallels. This also avoids the Jewish history which must have been behind the episode. Mark and Luke locate the episode at Gerasa, while Matthew records it as having been at Gadara. This confusion has never been properly explained.'

The Synoptic gospels revised reality and produced a parody of the actual events reported in the official history by Josephus in the 'Jewish War'.
quote; 'Vespasian sent Placidus with 500 horse and 3000 foot to pursue those who had fled from Gadara,... (5) Placidus, relying on his cavalry and emboldened by his previous success, pursued the Gadarenes, killing all whom he overtook, as far as the Jordan. Having driven the whole multitude up to the river, where they were blocked by the stream, which being swollen by the rain was unfordable, he drew up his troops in line opposite them. Necessity goaded them to battle, flight being impossible... Fifteen thousand perished by the enemy’s hands, while the number of those who were driven to fling themselves into the Jordan was incalculable; about two thousand two hundred were captured. A mighty prey was taken also, consisting of asses, and sheep, and camels, and oxen (NO PIGS) This blow was the greatest that had befallen the Jews, and appeared even greater than is was; for not only was the whole countryside through which their flight had lain one scene of carnage, and the Jordan choked with dead, but even the [Dead Sea] was filled with bodies, masses of which were carried down into it by the river.' War 4. 7. 4-6
In Book III, Chapter10 we read; 'Now those which were driven into the lake could neither fly to the land, where all was in their enemy’s hand, and in war against them, nor could they fight upon the surface of the sea, for their boats were small and fitted only for piracy; they were too weak to fight with Vespasian’s vessels... as for those that endeavoured to come to actual fight, the Romans ran many of them through with their long poles. Sometimes the Romans leaped into their boats, with swords in hand and slew them;.. And for such as were drowning in the sea, if they lifted their heads up above the water they were either killed by the darts, or caught by the vessels... one might see the lake all bloody, and full of bodies, for not one of them escaped... The number of the slain,... was six thousand and five hundred.'

'Around AD66 Josephus was sent to Galilee, either to maintain peace, or as a general to organize the defences against the Romans. At the same time a Jesus of Galilee and his 600 followers were sent after him from Jerusalem to organize resistance to the expected Roman invasion.' (Life, 40)
'Jesus of Galilee had to ‘depart’ Tiberius and later Tarichae because the leaders of the cities went over to the Romans pleading that the actions of a Mad-Man not be blamed upon them and the other peaceful, loyal, citizens.'
'This Jesus of Galilee and his followers departed from the loyal cities and they attacked the Roman camp from the sea as it was being constructed and caused considerable damage before taking to their boats. They rowed out of bow-shot and taunted the Romans.'
'The Jews could retreat into or across the sea, even to Gadara or Gerasa, with impunity. So, to pacify the sea Vespasian had rafts built under secrecy. When the day of reckoning came his troops on land closed in on Capernaum. Jesus of Galilee with his followers fled into the wilderness and this is the last we ever read of him.'


alji

Believe that if you want. But I believe God.

and that's based on what God wrote in the bible...and those passages are from the bible...so don't you beleive them?

Don't like to be picky, but Alji was quoting the Jewish historian Josephus. On the basis that what he says tallies pretty well with other contemporary sources he can be regarded as reliable (though not, of course, infallible).

When you say you believe in God, Sam, what does this actually boil down to? I've already mentioned (and you've ignored), my point about biblical infallibility and the meaning of truth. The question is why you believe, and I'm sure you'd agree that if you can't give some account of that, there's really no reason for anyone to take your beliefs seriously.

Noggin

DOH!

Noggin,

I believe the Lord Jesus when he speaks. I believe Him because He drew me to Him, and revealed His truth to me. I hope one day He will call you too, so you might understand.

and according to other posts, he speaks to you via the Bible. So you beleive God because he told you - through the bible. So you've just shifted the question - why do you believe the bible is God's word?

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az

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If I was the I'd tell you that too. I'd probably throw in a feeling of profound bliss or something when you heard my voice in your head. And I'd probably try to blur your sense of reality, grasp of logic and sense of morals while I was about it. That way you wouldn't have any problem with the idea that a loving entity could torment someone for eternity, that living a life of unearned luxury while others starve is what Jesus would have done, and that you were specially chosen even before you were born.

I wonder if the similarities could be coincidental?

Noggin