h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The EU was set up as an economic union. I do not see the necessity for transforming it into another super power à la USA with a strong central government and an elected president. The EU has the European commission and each half year presidency changes from country to country.

I was thinking of Rosa Luxemburg today. In the beginning of this century she wanted socialists to abandon the idea of nationalism and work together instead of being disunited by nationalist ideals. World war I shattered her dream.
In a way her wish came partly true with the EU. Socialists from France, Britain, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and all the other EU-countries are working jointly in the socialist fraction of the EU.
Now the idea is to give more power to the EU-parliament. I agree.
But, the idea is also that each country will vote their members of EU-parliament directly. For Holland this will mean about 27 seats in a total of 7 honderd-and-so-many.
I'm a bit apprehensive that it will be a stimulus for voting with nationalist intentions

I'm sorry, Pheloxi.

do not be sorry I knew that this would happen!

time to connect with each other. we need learn more from each other.

It was our first referendum. That part went well. I expected the final result to be the other way around. What is it now, 63 percent against, 27 percent in favour?

actialy our second....about 200 yrs ago we had one too!

In the time of Napoleon Bonaparte?

I am not sure...it went one ear in and other out...

I liked history as subject at school, but lately not so much...

I'm getting curious. I'll have to look it up. Must have been in Napoleonic times. But why ask an opinion or descision of the Dutch people. Or was it just the rich who were permitted to participate in the referendum. Yeah, yeah ... I'll dive into it.
You don't like history anymore? What's wrong with you ...?

I do not know
....too much re-runs on tv (like discovery)
....movies with Holywoods version of history

Pratt Pitt as Achilles. I've noticed that the taste in male actors has changed over the past decades, No more Gary Grant, Burt Lancaster, Rock Hudson, with pronounced jawbones, broad shoulders and calm, composed appearances. Now it's all baby-faces who stay baby-faces. The females look great though. You know Ashley Judd? She's marvelous. She plays a lot alongside Tommy Lee Jones, like in Double Jeopardy.

I saw Lawarce of Arabia last saterday on tv..I liked a lot!

I didn't see it. I think I saw a film with Robert de Niro, Al Pacino and the wonderful Ashley Judd.

Yes, found it: http://www.cmo.nl/pe/pe28/pe.284.html

during the Bataafse Republiek in 1897 the Patriotten organized a
referendum.

http://www.cmo.nl/pe/pe28/pe-284.html

My computer is getting terribly slow.

I too would vote 'No' in any referendum.

Not because I am against a United Europe, but because I am for it, as those who know me will be well aware.

I just refuse to give faceless politicians 'carte blanche' to line their own pockets.

Before this proposal was put to the vote there should have been clear and precise definitions of what powers would be given, what aims were being targeted and how it could all be controlled.

Being european doesn't mean lose of identity, it means strength in numbers. It gives europeans the bargining power of the U.S.A., backed up economicaly, militarily and technologicaly.

Many european countries are far more inclusive already than any other continent can ever be. How many countries have dual language, past colonies abroad and diverse populations.

We benefit from having made the mistakes before and can ensure tthat we do our very best to avoid them happening again.

Giving more politicians greater power than they could ever acheive in their own country is NOT the way forward. How many of us can name even our most senior member of the european parliement? Yet they ask for as much power as the politicians in our home state. No, no, no!

Tips for the euro MP's:
Raise your profile first.
Clearly state your aims.
Make clear your limitations.
Make clear how YOU will be governed by WE, the people!!
Enforce compulsory voting with penalties for those who do not vote. This has to be appealable because there are those who truely may not be able to vote (those being in a coma is most obvious).
Withdraw the vote from those in prison. Fine if not yet convicted (innocent until proven guilty) but sentanced convicts have already proven that they will not abide by the laws of the people.
Reduce your expenses claims, you are a laughing stock.

In the U.K. we only hear from euro MP's when it matters to them (elections, referendums). If they want europe to matter to us it must always be in the spotlight.

I beleive we have allowed the wrong people (career politicians who have failed in their own country) to govern europe. I want MPs who care and share at least some of my views without ripping open my wallet with lies and deceit.

One day there will be a United States of Europe, it's unavoidable. But let's make it the right one. One that includes us all. That's honest and open. That improves the lives of europeans without destroying the hopes of second and third world countries.

We have only one planet. We may have only one hope!!

"Raise your profile first".

I agree, but one of the things in this constitution was that European parlement would get more to say. even send a European Commision home!


like i said before constitution is wrong name, because it is treaty of treaties. an index of past treaties and new parts.

did you know know?
currently some of the treaties have conflict of the between treaties. in way you create a soil for fraud.

To be honest, I doubt if even the politicians really know what they have written. This is the very 'greyness' that I am against.

For me it makes sense to have one economic policy (all using the euro) which leaves some degree of movement for individual members. I know that sounds grey, but there is a clear policy which has limits to the degree of variance.

Currently that would be written in an 'if you agree with us, do it. If you don't, don't do it' style. We don't all have to be identical clones, but we should be a family/community with common threads.

The U.K. is seen as the black sheep of europe because it is trying to get to that very same point.

I think we should become closer trying understand each other better...

leave politcs out the exchange of ideas...

I am following the EU news more on h2g2 than the actual news.
I am very interested but just cannot stomach much news at the moment.

I'll stay tuned to you and the others discussing it around here.
Thanks for the info pheloxi.

........... Pheloxi ... the Christian Democrats now want to take the referendum from us Dutch people as a punishment for voting 'against' the EU-consitution yesterday. The bastards!

we do not have a referendum law

...we voted with a temporaly made law...