h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

andy, you might have a better understanding of the conversation, and the the name 'satanist' specifically if you read the backlog.

>>Satanism appears to define itself as a binary opposite to christian belief, so a satanist would *have* to be a christian to start off with. Also if you believe the words of the bible &#8211; and you must &#8211; then Satan is a product of god.<<

a satanist would not have to be a christian to begin with. the person that founded satanism would have to be familiar with christian principles, have a knowledge of the set up of christianity. he would not have had to been a believer. and no one *must* believe the words of the bible. but 'satan' is a creation of the christian faith. naming a religion satanism doesn't infer that the founder was formerly a christian, only that he was familiar with christian principles.

St Broelan - thank you! That was very well said, and I agree - Andy, please read the whole thread before you start posting. If you had done that, you would have realised how wrong you are.

Anyway, I would have started posting and answering everyone's questions sooner, but my damned ISP has been down for most of today and I have to go to work now

Hopefully, I'll be back online tonight.

Furthermore, Andy, if you read post 10 you will see why Satanism is so named. If you can't be bothered to read a whole thread before you post, then don't post at all.

I have read the whole thread thanks, but calling yourself a satanist and then claiming its not really anything to do with satan (as defined by the Bible) is very poor. And what's with all the camp pentagrams, black and red colour scheme and goats heads on the church of satan website. The Church of Satan is just playacting, you don't need the teachings of anyone to tell you to do what you want (Bart Simpson would be your ultimate acolyte) or that survival is a prime human trait. The Humanist movement has been saying that for 4000 years.
I'd be interested to hear about a black mass though.

One point: "For example, the Satanist scorns the person who prays to his god to make something happen, like getting a job, as he realises that the only way to make this happen is to get out there and do it for himself." This doesn't quite square with the CofS's rule #7.

I'd just like to reiterate, all religion is an attempt by a person or group to control the masses. The Church of Satan is no different, they just like to wear black while they're doing it.

Sorry if I offended all the hardened satanists here. Heaven forbid I should incur your wrath!

I just went and read the article, and although I know that you didn't write it Huw, maybe you could explain why satanists are called Satanists if as the article states they don't worship anything.

I am interested as I get accused of worshipping Satan as I am a witch, and I don't even believe in it!

i was going to ask at some point, what (if any) similarities are there between satanists and wiccans, since they are often confused?

andy, you will find this conversation much easier to carry on if you approach it with an open mind. if you cannot accept the information presented to you in an objective, unbiased manner, then perhaps you would be more comfortable getting your information from a different source.

and mina, isn't there more than one kind of witch? perhaps that's where the confusion comes from.

As far as I'm concerned there is only one kind of witch. We all follow the rede "If it harms none, do what you will". And yes, people accuse us of worshipping satan when they hear the word witch, which is why some use wiccan. The devil is a Christian invention, so we can't possibly worship something we don't believe in. Some people call us "white" or "black" witches, but I don't know any witches that use those words. I'm a hedge witch, by that I mean I am not part of a coven.

that also would prove to be an enlightening conversation. when i get some more time (might be a week or so) i'll come by your page and ask you more about it if you don't mind.

That's fine! But remember I'm a bit of a rubbish witch, as I keep forgetting the solstices as I've only been doing it just over a year!

Hello Mina, thanks for joining in!
I've just got home from work and I'm about to eat, so I'll be answering some questions soon enough.

By the way, Andy, you clearly revel in your ignorance and have no interest in either listening to what I have to say or presenting intelligent arguments, and so you are no longer welcome in this conversation.

Ok, I'm back now

As far as I am concerned, Wiccans and Satanists have at least a fair bit in common. I used to go out with a Wiccan, so I know something about it (although I don't purport to be an expert!).
As Mina said, Wiccans live by "if it harms none, do what you will." This is actually the main drive of a Satanists's actions too. If doing something harms nobody (UNLESS they deserve it - important point) then it is perfectly ok to do it. The bracketed statement above, however, shows one major difference. The Satanist believes that if someone has done you harm, then you must retaliate - otherwise you are no better than the dog who simply rolls over when kicked. This is also, I believe, a major difference between Satanism and Christianity, St Broelan?
Another agreement between Satanists and Wiccans is that the concept of 'white' and 'black' magic is a load of old arse. As far as Satanists are concerned, magic is simply magic. Maybe the people who accuse you of worshipping Satan are closer to the truth than they realise, Mina

As to why Satanism is so named - no offence Mina, but if you look earlier in the thread you will see my explanation.

The Seven Deadly Sins

Anton Lavey took the 'sins' and systematically tore them apart during his continued attack on Christianity. An example:
Lust. Lust - second only to self-preservation - is the biggest driving force of Human nature (and many other animals). It is supposed to be a sin (this is more to do with Catholicism, isn't it?), but without feelings of lust we as a race would not survive! Furthermore, show me one person in this world who hasn't experienced lust. As Lavey famously said - "If you go to Hell you will meet all your friends there."

Does anybody have any comments on this, or any of the other 'sins'?

Well, Satan was the original person to say "I will not serve" - and accepted a pretty harsh price for the priviledge of saying that: I'd say he was a pretty appropriate symbol for such a religion that advocates doing whatever you like, provided you accept the consequences.

There is a clear difference between praying to a God and performing magick - one looks externally for help, while the other looks internally. And both, of course, are rubbished by the tool we call Science.

Andy seems to have the misfortune to be generalising from certain dominant religions to all religions - an understandable mistake, perhaps - but hopefully he'll realise where he's going wrong...

If anyone can demonstrate a religion that isn't about control, I'd be very pleased to hear from them.

Actually there exists two kinds of Satanism. There was a guy who broke out of Church of Satan and started Temple of Seth. And those guys actually worship the devil, burn churches and that kind of stuff. They´re really ridiculous.

I say again, they only made it worse for themselves by calling it satanism.

"You and me baby aint nothing but mammals. So let´s do it like they do on the Discovery Channel"

Well andy... I always used to cite Athiesm as my religion.. and _meant_ it.... just to throw another point ino the fray


Converted now... not to satanism, the other camp

Intressting, where as worship of self has possitive aspects what concerns me is the useing of others for self gratification. Where do stand on this part?

I tryed to read The Satanic bible a long time ago and i personally found it hard to swollow.
I would be intressed in your views and the views of others.
Merry meet. <{{><

> "If anyone can demonstrate a religion that isn't about control, I'd be very pleased to hear from them."

Satanism, Wicca, Buddhism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Solipsism, the Church of the Die, and the rest.

There are plenty - if you only have eyes to see them...

~applause~

Yeah, thanks for your comments Lucinda - I'm glad that at least most of the people in this conversation can be open-minded about these things...

Away for weekend, but I'll be posting more soon. What did everyone think about the comments on lust?

Well, its true, lust is a basic human instinct...

But... isnt intelligence supposed to control instinct?
After all, its instinctive to kill but most of us dont...