h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Probably best taken on another thread...

I'm just questioning the impression you're maybe giving that bipolar disorder is - or is automatically perceived as - a debilitating and limiting condition that has to be treated cautiously. Although they did, at one stage, take my driving licence away, and I now have to re-apply three-yearly. And I hadn't even told anyone about my urges to steer into the paths of oncoming lorries!

More generally...I'm cautious about the implication that there's *a* bipolar experience, *a* bipolar personality...etc.


And I can assure you...these trees were big mofos! 'kin scary, it was. The fall could just of easily have kiklled as a parachute jump.

Oh...and when I last enquired about donating blood, I was turned down. Not because of the powerful cocktail of drugs sloshing around my system, but 'In case it triggered something.' That said...this was just the duty doctor on the National Blood Service's enquiries line - presumably some retired bint with insufficient competence to be a real doctor. I should think on and get a note from my CPN.

>a debilitating and limiting condition that has to be treated cautiously.<

No, no, no. I'm talking about the attitudes of organisations in the way they perceive it. I've made it clear *I* knew it was fine.

I won't tell you my position about disclosure in terms of all sorts of situations from driving to jobs. But I don't know what your experince of bipolar is compared to mine. There are times when I myself make the decision not to do certain things, because of my mind state.

I'm just being honest.



Last night I had this massive long dream where I repeatedly 'woke-up' in it, like you described. It happened over and over. it wasn't like waking in my life here, but waking up in the dream scenario. Crikey it was like a convoluted film and pretty weird and unpleasant, in a strange building peopled by people from my past and a few sinister new ones. The things h2g2 can cause. Many thanks for that dream trigger......

No...you're right. Sometimes its simpler to just not tell. A bit like public breastfeeding: 'If you don't ask permission they can't refuse.'

But my prefered approach is to remain staggeringly naive and kick up a fuss if necessary - which it never has been. I last worried about it when I applied to be a Children's Panel member - but the question as 'Are you aware of any medical condition that would limit or call into question your ability to serve?' So I used my judgement and put 'No'. I don't think it would have been an issue in the end - but why even have the conversation?

I aslo knew a bipolar climber. Tragically, he fell of an (easy!) hill the weekend after he came out of hospital after a particularly gruesome suicide attempt (tried to hack his hands off with a kitchen knife ) There was talk of an inquest, on the (wrong!) assumption of suicide - but it was realised that this wouldn't look good, given that he'd just been released.

Hmmm I wonder who yikesed post 2?

See how careful we have to be, Ed about honesty.

Strange - Yikesed post. Possibly they deemed that a slang word derived from the Arabic for 'woman' was overly sexist?

I shall rephrase:

Oh...and when I last enquired about donating blood, I was turned down. Not because of the powerful cocktail of drugs sloshing around my system, but 'In case it triggered something.' That said...this was just the duty doctor on the National Blood Service's enquiries line - presumably some retired wench with insufficient competence to be a real doctor. I should think on and get a note from my CPN.

I was turned down because of the medication I take. So I'm surprised that wasn't your reason. Mind you that was at the actual blood donating place. And it was a rather young and sexy doctor in my case. I didn't make a fuss; just smiled sweetly, like I understood.....

I'd be interested to discuss this more with you though Ed. The general problem of this condition, I mean. I don't get the impression that you suffer as much as I do with the 'emotion' and 'mood' problem. And some people with bipolar spend vast amounts of their time in hospital. In some ways it seems quite strange we have the same diagnosis. Except I can see you have that playfulness and ability to come at things from other directions, sometimes. But you seem far more generally grounded and together than me. There is clearly a wide spectrum. Mood/emotion problems are my main problem. They dominate my life. In many ways I compare my situation to that of a child, who has difficulty with intense emotions, and loses adult judgement sometimes. Indeed this was my problem as a child, and it just never went away....

But we still all have our own personalities.

Hmm. Yes, there's a spectrum.

As to whether I suffer as much as others...I wouldn't like to speculate. On the one hand, I hold down a respectable, relatively high-income job. On the other...a lifetime of misdiagnosed depression (plus not achieving my full potential yadda yadda)...and I've been hospitalised three times. (Once involuntarily, for two months). But then again...I've been lucky not to have destroyed my life with self medication.

But, yes, I've been lucky. I've had to be! Family to support, etc. etc. Much of the luck I've manufactured for myself has been down to making sure I have the right supports in place....self managing...keeping doctors appointments (hint hint).

Perhaps, on the whole, I don't see myself as A Bipolar Person in quite the way that you do (no criticism implied). I'm deliberately matter-of-fact about it. It no more defines me than my glaucoma. (Well...yes it does...but that's a useful fiction to work with.)

> I don't see myself as A Bipolar Person in quite the way that you do (no criticism implied).<

I know. But it does pretty much dominate my life now. More as I've got older. I feel it's completely blighted my life. And I've gone from being totally secretive about it on h2g2 to being very open. Though I like to think with a fair bit of humour. Not one long self pittying whine. You have to joke about stuff. i do.

Yes I couldn't imagine being able to cope with a family or anything like a normal job now. I've tried in the past and I just get ill. I'm pretty chaotic about things. But the ongoing excessive emotion is the biggest factor for me, in both a negative and a positive way.

Had I been born a few thousand years ago into a neolithic set-up, I think I would have done fine. I just can't cope with this culture and modernity.

Yes there is a big spectrum, and all sorts of complicating factors connected with my family background. I often wonder how much is genetic and how much up-bringing.

Yes I've thought more about it. Because I feel this condition has completely scuppered and sabotaged things for me in life. I have to make a positive out of it. I used to be more secretive because I could get by, despite it. That isn't the case now, so it's best to make it something to embrace as part of my identity. That's the way I am. I always have to find a way to make a positive out of things.

My family background is very much about high expectation, and failure isn't acceptable. 2nd best isn't an option.

I actually think that attitude was quite abusive, and has contributed to my problems. You shouldn't pile on that sort of insane pressure on a little kid.

So I've probably spent a lot of my life trying to do everything I could to disappoint them.

I heard that the pressure of high expectation is common in the parents of bipolars. Did you have that?

>>Had I been born a few thousand years ago into a neolithic set-up, I think I would have done fine.

Don't count on it. You'd probably have been burnt as a witch.

>>I heard that the pressure of high expectation is common in the parents of bipolars. Did you have that

My situation is pretty much the opposite. I was more a 'first Kinnock in a thousand generations to go to university' type. My brother and I got scholarships to a posh school were we were both miserable and isolated for different-but-related reasons. From where my parents were coming from, we were already punching above their weight and everything was fine and dandy and sorted. They didn't have a clue what was going on in our lives. (And it didn't help that my father was an alcoholic, and my mother depressed becaus of him). The reality was that I (and, I now know) my brother were second class citizens in the school. No teachers took an interest in me. I gave myself low aspirations. It was only when I got to university (on an atypical course for the school - not posh enough for law or medicine but no interest in engineering or accountancy) that I realised I was smarter than the average bear. But by then my psyche was formed and I remain racked with self doubt.

(A stammer didn't help either. Something else that any school worth its name would have given some attention to.)

Does that answer you question? What was it again?

Here's a thought. Have you had any contact with these people? http://www.mdf.org.uk/

When I manage, I go to a monthly support support group facilitated by their Scottish equivalent. It's nothing intensive and I don't focus my (so-called) social life around it...but one thing I have found is that it's normalised bipolar disorder for me. There's such a range of people and experience - but all so *normal*!

Yeah it's a lot to do with my parents determination to escape the poverty of both their parents and class to a degree, ie to go up in the world. They were both deetrmined in their own way. My father's fanatical ambition at work, and my mother egging him on.

They saw education as the way forward. They'd neither gone to uni, but had gone to grammar school. My mother was hugely embittered though because she easily good have. She was forever whining on about "how we didn't that encouragement in those days." So *I* had to fulfill her regrets. As soon as my brother came along when I was 3, and had a much more [placid nature, my relationship with her has been one long road of anger and conflict.



Yeah I used to belong to MDF. But never one of their groups. I'll think about it.



I thought neolithic people valued people like me? I'm not sure witches were burnt at that time, plus you stayed in the community you were born into. Not part of a nuclear family moving around and up in the world.



I'll leave talking anymore about all this though for now. I mean the specific stuff. Yes, but our different experiences will be important.

And to return to your original point.

>I'm just questioning the impression you're maybe giving that bipolar disorder is - or is automatically perceived as - a debilitating and limiting condition that has to be treated cautiously. <

I completely repudiate that. Quite clearly our experiences are very different, including other bipolars we've met.

>a debilitating and limiting condition that has to be treated cautiously.<

In fact Ed you've made me very angry with that suggestion. I think I've always emphasised the positve aspects of it, in terms of intense zest for life, full on emotional intensity, creativity which has allowed me to get great pleasure from relationships and art. I have the mania part quite a bit as well as the depression. The mania has enabled me to experience many things so called *normals* never experience. I've even had a psychiatrist once say that to me. He actually envied the perceptions I could have naturally without something like LSD. I try to concentrate on that mostly and not speak so much about the negatives which are pretty awful. So yes we take a different approach to the condition. I validate on general threads it in a positive way. I'm only speaking more to you here about the negatives, because I thought you were friend with a similar problem to mine.

And I can't bear the idea that you see me as someone who is seeing themselves as a poor bipolar.

i shall continue to speak about it in the way I do. If you interpret that in the way you do. that's your perception.

It's a hugely emotive issue for me, and very complicated.

If I've made you angry then I obviously haven't expressed myself very well.

Yes, I agree that bipolar disorder can be a debilitating and limiting condition. On the other hand - it's something that we can all learn our various coping strategies for, with limited degrees of success.

Are you familiar with the mental health jargon 'Recovery'? One definition of that is 'Being the best that you can.' I think it's a more positive way of looking at limitations. So maybe I could be a high-flyer...but at great cost to my health. So what? I can be happy where I am. Maybe someone else can't manage to work? So what. They can have other qualities, talents and achievements. *And here's the important bit*. It's up to us to kinow and define our abilities. No ****er's entitled to tell us whether or not it would be a good idea to jump out of a plane.

On the mania bit...yes, I do know what you're talking about. I enjoyed the insights and interconnections of mania *way* too much. It was similar to what I used to get from the Lamb's Bread Beloved of Rastafar-I. (*that's* a bad mix with mania!). It has another similarity, too - 98% of the insights are pure shite. (but, maaan, that 2%...!). Now, however, following my *extremely* negative experience with mania, I'm cautious about it, to the point of denial. Yes - I guess I have got a naturally creative, interconnecting mind (my Swedish professor friend calls it 'a synthetic intelligence' - as in 'synthesising', not as in 'robot'), and if that's because I'm bipolar - well, fair enough. See also...because I had a stammer (still do, but less of a problem), I have an enormous vocabulary and a facility for language (needed to avoid problem words). I know words like 'solipsistic' .

Another thing that occurs to me is - this is what I mentioned about self-doubt - is that I always question any talent I might have. If I can cook...well that's because it's easy. If I'm creative...well 98% of my ideas must be shite. And the other 2% bleeding obvious.

I'm rambling. again to have upset you with clumsiness. I'm usually guilty of Taking A Position which I haven't necessarily thought through...and I need counter-opinions blasted back at me. But I hope you can see a bit more where I'm coming from now.

Finally...you're right. Yer neolithics didn't burn their undesirables. Just garotted them and flung them in a bog. . But the stuff about community and family...Yeah, I'm well adrift from my roots. I envy the fact that my brother and sister can potentially bump into cousins or childhood friends in the street. I envy my local friends who have family around the corner. (and access to babysitters!). And a major, major hurt for me is that none of my remaining family, whether brother and sister or uncles and aunts, can ever be bothered to send a ****ing birthday card, let alone pick up the phone. My stupid mind can't help leaping to the conclusion that it must be because I'm A Bad Person.

OK many thanks Ed. It's a complicated thing and stirs up a lot of stuff...

I'll give your post some thought...

It's difficult.

I appreciate your reply

I've thought some more, since just getting your emails.

So it's probably best to finish here.

So am I getting hypomanic?

Possibly. It's spring. My exercise programme is going well. Most things are working out for me. I'm enjoying stuff - even mundane stuff like clearing out the loft.

Symptoms? Well...I'm sociable. I'm intersted in all sorts. I'm enjoying food and music. Is this normal? Does it help that I'm able to think 'Yeah - probably everyone doesn't want to hear your views'? Or am I in denial?

Bitch, isn't it, this illness? You have to worry if you feel good. But at least I'm worrying!

(PS - I must stress this: Those e-mails weren't from me. They concerned someone else's personal problems, and I won't say more for reasons of confidentiality)