Journal Entries
-
- 1
- 2
-
Refuting Prayers to Saints
Posted Jul 31, 2005
Well, Sam, seeing as how you are not going to comment on them, I'll do it myself. Having list the Roman Catholic defense of prayers to saints, I'll now try to refute them from an Evangelical point of view. After all, only by knowing how your ‘enemy’ will attack you will you be able to hold an upper hand. And as Paul stated in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, ‘Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.’
Well, first of all we are told to pray to God. For example, in Philippians 4:6 it states:
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
Or in Acts 8:22 it states:
‘Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord’
We are also told that righteous people pray to God (Acts 10:2; Romans 15:30 etc).
I also think I may have been wrong about that passage in Deuteronomy. While it does condemn necromancy, it also forbids consulting with the dead which could count as praying to the dead. But we are also told in 1 Samuel 18 about Saul speaking to Samuel even though he was dead and this is considered sinful. We also read Samuel telling Saul in verse 16 that if God refuses to help, he cannot help. So why should we pray to saints instead of God? If God refuses to do anything then the saints won’t help.
The verse I used in Revelation does suggest that people in Heaven are praying. But it doesn’t mean they can hear us or are praying for us personally. It is probable that they are just praying for the people of God in general or perhaps the saints already in Heaven. They are praying with them to God.
We could also argue that praying the Rosary is not the same as asking a friend to pray for you. In the Rosary, you pray Hail Mary 50 times. You would never ask a friend to pray for you 50 times.
So that is a quick attempt to refute the Roman Catholic position of praying to Saints.
Discuss this Journal entry [1]
Latest reply: Jul 31, 2005
Treason and Murdering Sympathisers
Posted Jul 29, 2005
I watched that Question Time program last night about Terrorism and British security. It very interesting but one thing really irritated me. And that was the way that the audience seemed to continually justify the murder of innocent British people with the Iraq war. I remember one British man stating that Britain has now paid the price for the Iraq war. I have to ask, what side are these people on? There is no excuse for the cold-blooded murder and I resent any ideas that we can justify it. Otherwise, we might as well just give in to these terrorists.
One reason behind this, I believe, is the lack of patriotism within British people. We should be proud of our country and what we stand for. We used to rule the world and now we refuse to be even slightly proud of our country. And this gives terrorists a soap box and justification, as well as breeding traitors within our own country.
And we should remember that these acts of terrorism go beyond the war in Iraq. They have attacked the West before the war and would have done it even if we had never went to war. The simple fact is, they hate our country, believing it to be filled with Christians, Jews and Zionists. They hate the freedom in our country and would like nothing better than to create a fully-blown theocracy where non-(fundamentalist) Muslims are treated worse than animals.
So the next time anyway is tempted to justify the London Bombing with the war in Iraq, remember that.
Discuss this Journal entry [29]
Latest reply: Jul 29, 2005
Prayers to the Saints
Posted Jul 28, 2005
Sam
You were shocked at my suggestion that you can ask people in Heaven to pray for you-something Roman Catholics and ‘higher’ Protestants do. Now I am not 100% sure on this subject either but I am going to defend it from the point of view that it is fine, and more so, perfectly Biblical.
You said the dead cannot hear our prayers but in Revelation 5:8, the saints in Heaven our offering our prayers to God. And if they are offering our prayers to the Lord, the must be able to hear our prayers.
Your second point states that we are forbidden to contact the dead and I assume you are referring to Deuteronomy 18:10–11:
‘There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.’
However, this passage is actually against conjuring up spirits for information. A necromancer is somebody who conjures up dead spirits to find out information about the future. This is hardly the same as asking somebody in Heaven to pray for you. Besides, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17 so God cannot forbid contact with dead saints. You could argue that Elijah did not die (but then we start the debate about whether Mary died-something the reformers were not sure about-Luther certainly did not believe she died) but Moses certainly did.
It is true there is only one mediator between man and God and that is Jesus Christ:
‘For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the Man Jesus Christ’. 1 Timothy 2:5
However, we have to understand what this means. First of all, we cannot get to God unless we go through Jesus Christ. Nobody comes to the Father except through the Son. Secondly, since He is God and man, he provides a bridge between earth and heaven.
However, this does not condemn prayers for others or asking others to pray for you. In fact, if you read the verses before 1:Timothy 2:5, you will see that it is supported:
‘I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all me;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;’ 1 Timothy 2:1-3
In the first verse, Paul asks that we make intercessions. An intercession is a prayer for somebody else. Therefore, it is good in the sight of God to pray for others, and, based on the above, the saints in Heaven can pray for us. So what is wrong with asking them to pray for us?
Now I am not 100% convinced but I must say, there is a pretty strong case for it.
Discuss this Journal entry [4]
Latest reply: Jul 28, 2005
Catholicism, Protestantism and Prayers to Mary
Posted Jul 26, 2005
Bad News. My local Christian book-shop did not stock Anglican rosaries and nor will they ever probably. But they did sell Catholic rosary beads and it got me thinking. Now I believe the Bible is the Word of God and I stand firm on that. But my understanding of Christianity can change as I understand the Bible more (I am quite young but won’t say how old). Now most Protestants do not pray the rosary for a few reasons-one of which is the Hail Mary prayer. At first, the usual Protestant mantra of ‘Mary worshiping’ springs to mind but let us actually look at the prayer:
‘Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee’
This is the greeting the angel gave to Mary in Luke 1:28. We can debate, however, about whether it should be translated as ‘full of grace’ or ‘highly favoured one’.
‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus."
Again, this is in the Bible. Mary’s cousin said this to her in Luke 1:42.
‘Holy Mary, Mother of God’
Well, all Christians are holy (and Mary was the first to accept Christ). Christians are called ‘saints’ which means ‘holy ones’. And Mary was the mother of Jesus who was God so I suppose the second part is fine too.
‘pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."
Well we ask people to pray for us so what is wrong with asking Mary to pray for us? And in Revelation 5:8, people in Heaven pray for the saints. But then, is it right to ask people in Heaven who are dead to pray for us? Hmm….
However, I know that some Protestants have changed the last line to:
‘Son of Mary, Son of the living God, have mercy upon us, now, and at the hour of our death. Amen’
And that is fine for all Christians.
I’m rather unsure. Personally, I think a lot of the practices in the Roman Catholic Church are Biblically sound when we really examine them but Protestants are too terrified to accept this in case of being branded 'Romanisers' or what ever.
What do other Protestants (not Anglicans though) think of rosaries and prayers to Mary? I know it is very much out of place in Protestant denominations but frankly, I don’t care much. Our allegiance is to God and His Word, not denominations.
Discuss this Journal entry [3]
Latest reply: Jul 26, 2005
Catholicism, Protestantism and Prayers
Posted Jul 25, 2005
Bad News. My local Christian book-shop did not stock Anglican rosaries and nor will they ever probably. But they did sell Catholic rosary beads and it got me thinking. Now I believe the Bible is the Word of God and I stand firm on that. But my understanding of Christianity can change as I understand the Bible more (I am quite young but won’t say how old). Now most Protestants do not pray the rosary for a few reasons-one of which is the Hail Mary prayer. At first, the usual Protestant mantra of ‘Mary worshiping’ springs to mind but let us actually look at the prayer:
‘Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee’
This is the greeting the angel gave to Mary in Luke 1:28. We can debate, however, about whether it should be translated as ‘full of grace’ or ‘highly favoured one’.
‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus."
Again, this is in the Bible. Mary’s cousin said this to her in Luke 1:42.
‘Holy Mary, Mother of God’
Well, all Christians are holy (and Mary was the first to accept Christ). Christians are called ‘saints’ which means ‘holy ones’. And Mary was the mother of Jesus who was God so I suppose the second part is fine too.
‘pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."
Well we ask people to pray for us so what is wrong with asking Mary to pray for us? And in Revelation 5:8, people in Heaven pray for the saints. But then, is it right to ask people in Heaven who are dead to pray for us? Hmm….
However, I know that some Protestants have changed the last line to:
‘Son of Mary, Son of the living God, have mercy upon us, now, and at the hour of our death. Amen’
And that is fine for all Christians.
I’m rather unsure. I will admit (and Sam will be horrified by this) that sometimes I do think Roman Catholicism makes sense but sometimes I don’t. I probably would be more suited to the Anglican Church but I do like my Baptist Church and I do agree with them.
What do other Protestants (not Anglicans though) think of rosaries and prayers to Mary? I know it is very much out of place in Protestant denominations but frankly, I don’t care much. Our allegiance is to God and His Word, not denominations.
Now this is quite a personal open-letter so please don’t shoot me down.
Discuss this Journal entry [1]
Latest reply: Jul 25, 2005
-
- 1
- 2
-
Good_News
Researcher U1313964
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."