h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hullo, whoever,

What is going on, please? Lucinda is being cyberstalked. We're being lurked, and then BOOGABOOGA it pops out of the woodwork and starts slinging mud. Then we find this 'It had to be said...' thread, after spending most of the night writing why this has to STOP.

What are we missing, here? Is there something by way of Deeper Meanings that we do not see? That is certainly possible, and by far preferable to believing that this is ALL sheer bloody-mindedness, and a fondness for the kicking of people who are down.

Well, it's totalled us. Head-on collision smashed flat totalled. Our emotions quit about an hour ago, as they were getting dangerous. We've gone from hysteria to zombie. But we are still scared. We thought it was over... yah. Naive, huh? We can't sit still and be verbally, psychologically, and emotionally abused like this, and we are hamstrung when it comes to any sort of self-defence.

We were afraid the more predatory types would seize the moment.

Unless that is not what's happening, really, and we've just temporarily got into the wrong universe, and as soon as we dimension-shift again, we'll be all normal...

We did not endure and recover from all that abuse to be kicked into the mud by some churl with... with whatever that churl has...

Mud, hell, try the depths of inter-galactic space.

What can we do to make this stop? Any ideas, however strange, would be most welcome.

If you want to email, use the [email protected] address. It gets through, there. Just leave a note somewhere obvious, saying you sent, so we can go get.

Really close to the very edge of what passes around here for sanity. We won't fall. We could be pushed. And is it worth it, to stay here at h2g2? No, if this isn't fixed, and/or happens again. The lynchings had just started to let up.

Aww hell...

Sara...as unbalanced as I have ever felt, with one exception since I started existing at body age 2, for the self-mutilative, depressed, triggered and terrified community of LeKZ

read & understoof. One of us will respond soon. Much s
-Martin

Hi Arpeggio,
I got your message on my space. I can't say much other than that I guess you're just going to have to ignore it and stand above it
People will talk and there's not much any of us can do about it
I'm surprised this is still happening - don't people here have anything better to do?

That probably didn't help much I guess

Oh well, s from me anyway

Orcus

Orcus,

Evidently this is their idea of a worthwhile pastime. It is going to destroy us. We cannot keep rising and keep rising and keep rising above the tide, when the tsunami was manufactured for our benefit.

Is there any way this can be stopped? We don't have to engage with those people. This would be beastly for anyone. For us it is a case of the screaming shrieking horrors of the past, who've just popped in with some of their uglier fiends, to have a bit of a party at our expence. The children are so scared... and so are the rest of us.

The kids wrote to Androyd. We hope he sees it. He's good with little kids. They feel it, though we haven't given them much info, some of them know... and they feel it. If their Biguns are flipping out and don't feel safe, how can the littluns feel safe?

This is too much. Just too damn much. It probably would send someone who was NOT an abuse survivor into the hospital. We know how to just switch off all emotion if worst comes to... well it has. Only worse is always an option.

We are only mostly human.

besieged and soon to have the gates bashed in...

Sara... I've never cried before in the 37 years I have existed. I did when I saw what the children wrote, and I am now... for LeKZ

Yeah, cyberstalking...

I'm ok with it. Well, maybe it's a little disconcerting, but nothing I can't take care of myself. I didn't go through what I went through at school just to get horribly upset by someone following me around on a webite, which, at the end of the day, is just a bunch of electrons moving around. What Xanthia can't tear to pieces , and what MyRedDice can't make a joke of , bounces merrily off our mental shield . Don't feel the need to protect us, Guido - we can take care of ourselves. Have no worries, I'll let you know if I start to get under strain, but I'm a long, *long* way from that at the moment.

Just wanted to take that particular load off your mind - give you one less thing to worry about... Love y'all.

-all of us, especially Lucinda

We need a smiley. Xanthia wants a smiley, but I suspect the happy-happy-joy-joy naure of h2g2 will work against that...

How to make it stop? What you're doing now. Leave it alone, and it'll go away - MoG seems happy to not trouble you or look at any of your threads if you'll do the same to her... I could even broker a semi-formal agreement to that effect, though it would involve wearing one of those awful wigs *watches her fashion sense run away and hide*

This has only been a single incident, though, so perhaps it isn't as bad as it seems... I certainly hope so

Maybe I can try and suggest some self-defensive ideas you can use in these situations so you don't feel you're relying on someone else - let me know if this would be helpful...

-Lucinda

Yes, please. Suggestions welcome.



Emergency Back-Up Default Teenager for LeKZ

Ok, let's see.

1) 'I will not respond'

Just post a comment that you can't respond to a certain post, or part of a certain post, in a civil manner, and you're going to leave the thread. And then leave and unsubscribe. Example:

>>I would love to respond to the comments in post 13, but I have been unable to do so without my post becoming angry and offensive. I must therefore take leave of you all - have a nice flame war. *unsubscribe* <<

2) 'Give them rope'

Old phrase: give someone enough rope to hang themselves. Just ask questions, ask for details, clarifications, which of two interpretations of their words are more fitting, "do go on", and so forth. Some idiots will happilly wander off on their own and make a complete and utter fool of themselves. Why take the time to make people look stupid when they'll do it for themselves? 'non-directive therapy' style questions are good for this.


3) 'Kill them with kindness'

Just be really really really really kind, to the point where it all starts to seem completely ridiculous, and nobody believes you mean it, and then a bit more. Don't be sarcastic, though - just say it. This involves lying, of course, so you might not like this one. but it works very well, as eventually people start getting embarrased and return compliments and apologise. Well, most people.

4) 'Dual meanings'

See my post at the end of Nathan's nonsense on copyright. Two ways to interpret it, and one is positive, and one is definately not. And making this sort of post is a *lot* of fun...

5) 'Censorship'

Kurtis'll like this, perhaps. Just put lots of X's all through your post, in the bits where you want to tell someone whXX a XXXpXX liXXXX XXcX X/XX XXXlly Xs! Make sure the number of Xs and odd uncensored words and letters is such that you can almost, but not quite, tell what the meaning is.

Anywho - see what you can do with these, if you like. I've seen some of you use them before, so I'm not telling you anything knew - just trying to point out where you *do* still have operative defences. Perhaps you can think of more...

Xanthia - Keeper of Tempers, including those which need lots of chains...

I'd like to offer a suggestion, which is a bit more constructive than Xanthia's. Xanthia's are great, but they're really best when the situation has already broken down. This may help keep so many situations from breaking down.

I have read through the inventions thread, and I saw some things that could have been handled differently. I'm going to describe my own methods of dealing with sensitive issues on H2G2 in terms of the multiple personalities I posted elsewhere.

When somebody says something that is totally offensive, Mo runs for the keyboard. He wants blood. While he is working, though, Professor H is standing directly over his shoulder, making sure he doesn't go too far. They argue over the content of the post, which only makes Mo angrier, but eventually, everything is said in a way that is proper. Professor makes Mo take out all of the personal things, and forces him to stick to the subject. So when Mo wants to say "It takes a real moron to say XXXX", Professor makes him clean it up, keeping the discussion oriented on the ideas, rather than on the people expressing them.

Some of the things that I read in the inventions thread are the kinds of things that, left to his own devices, Mo would have written. Even the apology... there are still some improper statements in there. There is an implication that the people you are talking to are part of the problem. That may even be true, but it doesn't have any place in an apology. It's not really what you want to say, even if it is what you believe.

Maybe you should consider working more collaboratively with the people inside. Auntie can do more harm than good, if she's allowed. Send her off to say what needs to be said, but send with her someone who can restrain her impulses. Let that person re-read what you're writing, to make sure there are no implications that you didn't intend.

For what that'll buy you, my two cents...

Mo

Preventative action is a completely different kettle of fish - though (1) will often prevent deterioration simply because it's difficult to have a flame war on your own. And (2) occasionally surprises me completely, when someone totally fails to hang themselves, but instead wanders merrily back into civilisation and retracts their more offensive comments as over the top, and not what they meant.

Oh, and I missed a couple. They do both preventative and self-defence, probably about equally as well.

6) 'Link me up' aka 'Take it Elsewhere'

something like:
--
> "Believe in God, or else!"
Please take a look at my edited entry on Pascal's Wager at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A517646 which I believe provides a good deal of useful discussion of this argument - I'd be interested to hear your views on it there!
--

Kills lines of discussion dead in twenty seconds flat. Very handy if you're sick of a particular argument or common error. Unfortunately, it requires putting in a fair amount of effort for every argument you want to kill. It also encourages people to move their arguments to that particular entry, which can make things less threatening, and criticise the entry rather than a person, which is better yet.

Aside from the Pascal's Wager entry, I tend to link to the Satanism entry when people start confusing LaVey Satanists with Devil Worshippers. That seems to work well.

This works with links to unedited entries too. External links and conversations are less effective, since people are less likely to take their arguments to that place. If there is no appropriate entry, askh2g2 works. Linking to http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A68555 is fun, but ultimately futile...

7) 'Just the Facts'

Related to the above - just sticking to facts works wonderfully if the facts are sufficient to show someone their error. Let people draw their own conclusions, it's not even necessary to comment on the facts most days - they speak for themselves. For examples:

--
> "there are ten billion football hooligans worldwide!"
Fact: the world's population is just over six billion.
--
> "you're just a child, what would you know?"
Fact: I'm 22.
--
> "you'll never find a man doing the washing up"
Fact: I'm male.
Fact: I'm adult.
Fact: I last did the washing up this morning.
Fact: It was after a breakfast of bacon sandwiches.
Opinion: mmm... bacon sandwiches...
--

You get the picture.

Xanthia - "The best forms of online self-defence use the attacker's stupidity as a weapon against hir. Sorta like Aikido with Electrons."

I'm here too!

Quiet BABUSA Cheerleader drifts in on a slow hot-air-balloon in order to offer comforting to all who need it!

I left a like message somewhere else, but I obviously didn't shout loudly enough.

All of LeKZ - Please feel free to use me as a listening post. I know I haven't been around all the time, but I'd blame work for that - no fair blaming me for work's time constraints!

x x Fenny (off to post wherever I can find you...)

Thank you all, comments and criticisms noted, and will be incorporated as and when necessary.

Mo, I don't actually lack impulse control. Sometimes I *want* to be less than 100% nice. It is my JOB to help everyone Inside here feel safe, and they are not necessarily going to do that if I stick exclusively and always to diplomacy. I *can* do diplomatic. There's nothing I like half so much as taking the wind out of a hostile person's sails by just being pleasant (see the statistics thing from last night at the Inventions thread). She was rude, sarcastic, etc. I thanked her for the opportunity to clarify something I had phrased poorly. Instant deflation of situation, and a point actually got made better.

I have to weigh External and Internal considerations when I'm on the job, as does any protector. I am very seldom truly impulsive. I may choose, for Internal reasons, to seem that way. Sometimes it helps hurt, scared, angry others (especially the kids) when they know that someone is angry on their behalf. You can understand Rage Issues.

My *personal* talent is that I do not have the same ones, in the same ways, as most of the protectors here. This is not to say that other people don't talk over my shoulder, but for the most part, I preview, edit, preview, edit some more, until I have a post that I think addresses both sides of the situation adequately. It's the 'both sides' thing that since most people don't have, they don't get. Well, I just have to do the best with what I have to work with; in this case, that is answering to two Realities.

I've been doing this stuff pretty regularly since '95. I've seen a few people twist off, on unmoderated boards for people with mental illnesses (subsection, post traumatic stress, sub-sub section, child abuse, but these were only sub-topics in the mental illness section *thank you Prodigy*). I haven't seen a twist-off this spectacular in the entire time we've used online BBS. No doubt Usenet alums have. To me, this is a new and different thing. I'm learning from it.

Your points are still valid and I will implement your suggestions. I am just coming from a different position than I think you thought. So, I explained.

Xanthia, thanks too. Mostly I come in *after* the fire starts. I'll hang around and look for more and better ways to avoid fires in the first place.

Oh yeah, and Colonel, my posting about 'coming on too strong' could maybe fall into one of Xanthia's suggested categories. I said exactly what I meant, and meant no more and no less than what I said. It was the truth. To not have suggested anyone was wrong would have been uncivilised, IMO, because they were - factually (and morally, but that is opinion) wrong.

I (like the rest of us) will never lie, if I can find any way not to. Sometimes, all it takes is to be circumlocutory and obfuscatory, but truthful. I'm pretty good at those things. Our *friends*, who are generally about as bright and insightful as we, and know more about how we think than the usual passers-by, *might* occasionally think they detect possible ambiguities. That's okay. We're happy to clarify those things, via email.

If I can't be truthful, I will do my best to avoid saying anything. If something is *expected*, socially, I will make the appropriate remarks, at just that level. It's a lousy job, but somebody has, on occasion, to find a socially appropriate noise to make to Florence, when she asks what we think of her hideous new dress and how it makes her look like an overstuffed Barcalounger. Those noises fall to me, and to Marilyn. She does it really well in person. I do it better in writing than she does.

It's not easy running interference for so many hurting kids and adults, and looking 'nice' to the External world, at the same time. If you haven't looked there, check out what the kids wrote to Androyd Sunday am, in the wee hours under 'to rant, perhaps to rave'. Maybe you'll get a better idea of what we're juggling here.

Add your two cents and my two cents, and with a buck .56 you can get a cup of coffee.

Ta ta, and thank you for the input.

Auntie , for LeKZ

To keep the salivary glands working, eh Xanthia?

Auntie , equally expectorative, in a quiet and ladylike way, for LeKZ

Well, Martin, allow me to jump in here ... this entire conversation is now ruined anyways. I just want to know how you're holding up under all this. Sigh ... this has been hard on me. You say you become less plural under stress - well, first I became more plural, then less, then more again ... it's quite turbulent in here. I'm still confused.

Would you like to hear more from/about my own inner people? They have a few things to say about this affair, but about many other matters also.