h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I so hope this isn't the end of the story.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071212/tuk-uk-britain-trump-fa6b408_6.html

It was half expected. I spoke to a friend from Aberdeen over the weekend. She said Councillors who'd voted against had had death threats. They've sold their souls. Have we all got price tags on us?

It seems that everything, and possibly nearly everyone has their price, especially if threats are involved.

I hope someone sees the light and stops it.

Websailor

Heard over the weekend that it was said in Aberdeen that Alex Salmond was furious the plans were rejected. He says he's not involved here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7142344.stm

It's a drop in an ocean, or a grain of sand on the Great Dune, but I contacted him to ask he use his influence to ensure no harm to the SSSIs at least.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/alex_salmond/index.htm

I've tried to find out if the SNRs or RSPB are doing anything where support might help. It's very frustrating to feel so strongly and not have any way to demonstrate it.

How do you read the local opinion, Waz?

It seems to me that the locals are the ones who should decide in cases like these. That approach has the virtuous consequence of securing a fair slice of the economic benefit for the locality - because, if the locals aren't going to get the benefit, they aren't going to back the scheme either.

Without a secret ballot, how do you tell? And where do you draw the boundaries around 'local'?

My own opinion is that self interest is being very vocal. Mr Trump's camp say locals are in favour - if so why the heavy hand with the farmer who doesn't want to sell though? And a 50/50 split among councillors that gives the Chair a casting vote - given the usual low priority for safeguarding landscapes etc among elected local councillors - I think says a lot. As do all those abstentions.

The impression I got from the friend I was talking to, who is very canny, is that there is a section of very vociferous support in the business community, but that the scheme and the handling of it is very distasteful to many others. But she's Aberdeen local, rather than Balmedie local.

Alex Salmond's involvement is not local. Story goes, he's bearing heavily in favour of the development.

I wouldn't disagree with it being a good thing for locals to decide, provided all the facts and alternatives are on the table. That's what I doubt. Do they really know what could be lost? And how true is it that any locals will benefit in the long term?

There will be some golf attendants and hotel jobs, but most Brits don't want hotel jobs. All the wealth that might be attracted will, I believe, stay in the Trump International Resort. That's how you get to be a billionaire - not by sharing.

You know, it's not the complex I hate in itself. It's the unnecessariness of putting it exactly there. There is room for it, plenty, around that area. But that concentration, and right on that stretch of shifting dunes... I can't escape the feeling that it's really about creating a Trump Estate.

Sorry, that's long winded and not well thought out. Basically, I want the whole story told, and a fair, unpressured decision, and some demand made for a development that adds to wherever it's built rather than a falling over at the feet of a billionnaire to accept whatever crumbs he chucks .

I was down on Prees Heath today, on a working party cutting back old heather.

(Prees Heath and the blue butterfly are now on the BBC btw http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/nature/uk/records/tagged/silver%20studded%20blue%20butterfly )

With me was a lady who lives there, one of the Commoners. Real local. She has spent years, decades, with others who live there trying to prevent the heath disappearing under the plough or being stripped to excavate gravel.

Local as represented by the Council failed to protect it despite the rules around SSSIs, protected species and common land.

One third of Prees Heath is now owned by Butterfly Conservation and being restored. The other two thirds are being used for agriculture. Any wildlife value is virtually gone. There's a lot of ill feeling because by rights it shouldn't have happened.

At Balmedie, the golf course will destroy an SSSI. SSSIs are supposed to be protected. It's another wrong that shouldn't happen and it's likely the resentment will last for decades just as it has around the Heath.

On the Heath today it struck me how much time and effort was going into restoring something from remnants that survived by the skin of their teeth while up at Balmedie they were on the verge of destroying something that supposedly is protected.

The RSPB are campaigning for Balmedie. http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/conservation/sites/scotland/menie.asp They're also backing a Downing Street petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?sort=signers .

Mr Trump has refused the RSPB's offer of advice on re-designing the development to prevent damage to the SSSI. The current design will destroy the mobile dunes which are one of its main features. Their own plans acknowledge that, it's not supposition any more. What can that be other than complete lack of care and arrogance? I just don't get it.

LLWaz I have signed the petition. Thanks for the link.

Websailor

I thought you might want, it was partly why I posted the link .

Just had a letter back from The Scottish Government's Planning Directorate. My comments 'are noted'. But most of the letter is about how as the MSP for the constituency concerned, Alex Salmond is debarred from having any role in the planning process but has the right to meet and discuss constituency interests.

He met with Donald Trump's representatives the day before the Aberdeenshire Council's decision was called in by the Scottish Parliament.

Conservation/environmental group representatives seem to have had more difficulty.

Hello Waz, Websailor, Pinniped, et cetera!

I went to the petition but couldn't sign it because I'm not a British citizen!

I saw though that there's *another* petition that asks for *support* for The Donald's golf course! This petition has, at the mo, a lot more signatures than the signatures opposing it! The folks who support it, think in terms of the money and employment opportunities it will bring.

The problem is ... there's not an easy 'monetary' value that can be attached to an unspoilt beach! How can one try and work out the real value of something like that ... or any other wonderful thing that 'Nature' gives us, for free? How can one explain to people the magnitude of what would be lost, if we lose it? That, to me, is the really difficult thing ... in my own value system I value Nature extremely highly, but when speaking to other people, I have to talk in terms of *their* value systems ...

My value system is the same as your Willem. Don't understand anyone who thinks otherwise.

The value of nature often can only be quantified after we have lost it, or part of it


Websailor

The local decision principle is a really difficult one. If we held to it ... conservationists, treehuggers, greenies whatever, would have to ensure the locals benefitted from the value placed on whatever natural feature was being protected. And that, thinking of subsistance farmers living around Africa's game parks, would be no bad thing.

Benefit being both economic benefit and the benefit of being allowed to share in appreciation. The latter requires a means to participate which is often lacking. You can't quantify the value of an SSSI, or unspoilt landscape, but you can do things to make it more accessible.

But on the whole your conservationists, treehuggers and greenies don't have the biggest wallets. And there, I guess, is where Government, local and national, comes in.

I knew about Trump's Balmedie project in outline back in September and hated it but accepted it then. I've realised since that I was depending on local/national Government and the statutory protections to act to balance the conflicting interests and safeguard what needed safeguarding. What's really got to me is a horrible feeling the system's not doing what it should and something underhand and self-interested may be happening. When that happens you end up with groups and lobbies and shouting from all concerned to try and even everything up again.

There was a comment from a pro-scheme person I came across saying Aberdeen's theatres and art gallery would benefit... that's peanuts. If that's all he could come up with, it says a lot. There will be a one-off benefit to those building and setting it up. And a short term gain to local shops and restaurants but then, being good business guys, Trump's companies will surely provide/take over/dictate discounts to keep their visitors' dollars inhouse. In the way that's been experienced by the out of the way places the cruise ships call on. That's just good business.

Something I'd not taken in before is that Chairman Councillor Martin Ford, or rather the now ex-Chairman Councillor Martin Ford's casting vote on 7-7 followed a 9-5 vote to reject the scheme. The 7-7 was rejection without scope for renegotiation. Rejecting the scheme as it stood was not so close a vote as I'd thought.

I saw the other petition - can't tell when either was started. They don't really mean a lot - just another way of shouting.(I'm tempted to sign the one for Jeremy Clarkson to be Prime Minister. Even if he did enrage my sister by driving a 4x4 up a remote Scottish mountain.)

My hope's that enough noise gets made that the Scottish Parliament make a proper balanced considered judgement. And that the level of noise will mean that any conditions imposed to protect the SSSI etc are actually enforced.

(Totally off topic, Willem, did you see the news that there may be 6 species of giraffe? You might need to do some updating...)

Sorry, that's an awfully long post.

Hey Waz all I can say is keep fighting the good fight!

We're really in trouble if 'government' doesn't do what it expressly ought to do.

Similar thing here. Money 'trumps' everything! I think I told you before ... Websailor, I don't think I told you yet ... over here lots and lots of beautiful natural areas are disappearing - to make room for mines, dams, housing etc. A prime example of that is a range of *low* hills to the east of where I live. Really low hills, really 'modest' sort of scenery ... and yet, to me they've always been extremely precious! From the time I came to Pietersburg I loved hiking around those hills. But anyways, they're now building houses there. Not houses for the poor ... houses for the rich! Huge blocky mansions that aesthetically clash with each other.

Now ... my own 'subjective' value system value those hills for being beautiful and for the diversity of life that live there. I could always escape my troubles with a quick hike for an hour or two, watching birds, exploring for plants. On every hike I see something new. And now they're building those hills up simply because some rich people like having a nice view with their houses.

This *ought to be* stopped by the law of the land, because those hills house - naturally that is - *several* species of rare plants. Aloes, for instance. There's a large 'aloe forest' there, of the species Aloe marlothii. There are about three other aloe species as well. There is a large population of a local Anacampseros species. These plants are all protected by law; removing them is illegal. Of course when the houses, roads etc. are built, they are all entirely destroyed.

One thing about South Africa and its biodiversity is this: we have among the richest diversity of plants in the entire world, but this diversity is *very* vulnerable. Many species are extremely restricted in their distribution ... they frequently occur on very small patches of land. This is the case with the Anacampseros, as well as a species of Kleinia that occurs, as far as is known, only here in Pietersburg. There are several such species 'at stake' in the whole process of 'developing' South Africa.

Anyways that's just what's going on over here.

Considering what you said Waz ... people have access to this little area I'm speaking of ... but most people never bother going there. The scenery and wildlife is not spectacular enough. They'd rather pay a lot of money and go to a big reserve like the Kruger National Park where they can see elephants and lions.

OK now *I*'ve also made a long posting! Waz, where did you read that about the giraffes? In my field guide, there are eight subspecies recognised. I assume that most of these are now elevated to the rank of species?

Unspectacular scenery and wildlife needs advocates. They have attraction - it's just not obvious. The BBC have been doing a nature series where thay've highlighted some extraordinary 'small' stuff. Like the incredible relationalship between gorse and ants.

Which knocked, , the only slightly less extraordinary relationship between silver studded blue butterflies and ants, filmed on 'my' Prees Heath , off the national tv programme and into the local tv spot. But it's all good.

Giraffes - here you go http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7156146.stm

Hey thanks for that Waz! I'll try and look out for more info ... will write an update or two if necessary!

Yep the small stuff is amazing! There's a wonderworld of stuff that most people never see or could even dream about. Can you tell me just a *little* bit about the incredible relationship between gorse and ants ?

Try this for gorse and ants. http://www.nerc.ac.uk/publications/planetearth/2006/spring/spr06-ant.pdf
It misses out one thing the TV programme mentioned - that the foraging ants jaws aren't strong enough to eat the little green bit that sticks out the seed (elaiosome according to the link). That's why they take it into the ant nest where the (younger, I think) worker ants can eat it. Next bit is that although ants are tidy and try to get the seed back out the nest once they've eaten the green bit, the seed is so smooth without it they can't get a grip and have to leave it - where of course it germinates safely. Neat , hey?

The BBC has clips from the programmes but I suspect they're not available outside the UK. Not that they had the gorse seed/ant piece there anyway. The site's here if you want to try http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/nature/uk/natureofbritain/ It does have the Prees Heath butterfly clip on it.

I found another butterfly/ant dependence bit while looking - apparently the large blues' caterpillars look and smell like ant larvae - so they take them down into their nest and protect them. In return for which the caterpillars eat the ants. Not much give and take there.

Silverstuddeds are much nicer, giving sugary stuff in return for just protection.

Hey Waz! Merry Christmas! To you, too, Websailor!

Thanks so much for the gorse/ants info Waz! It's indeed what I thought it was. The exact same sort of thing - it's called myrmecochory - occurs here in South Africa, also! But with different species of plants. I think most instances are in the 'fynbos' vegetation of the South Western Cape. It's claimed that as much as 30% of fynbos plants here, use ants in this way!! Considering that there are over 7 500 species of Fynbos plants ... it means at least 2 500 species of plants ... many of them only very distantly related to others ... have evolved some form of myrmecochory here. How 'bout that?!


I'll maybe try and find out about ant/butterfly interactions over here, as well. I'm sure there must be something since we have a huge number of both ant and butterfly species here.

LLWaz,

Thank you so much for this link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/nature/uk/natureofbritain/ as I was able to access a programme about my local area which I missed on the TV.

You haveacheered up miserable day

Websailor

Oh, hey , glad to have been able to. The warden for Prees Heath sent me the link after I missed my local bit with the heath on it.

(And now I've found BBC iplayer, and can also watch reruns of Darren Gough's smoothie, which I cannot watch without smiling.)
Waz

LLWaz, Thank you again. You reminded me about iPlayerand I have just watched the Strictly Come Dancing programme which ws on earlier this evening which I was unable to watch on TV.

So pleased, thank you again.

Websailor

Happy New Year Waz, Websailor and everyone else! I wish you the sublimest of happiness and success with everything this coming year!

Willem