h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi LLWaz,

I've been given your entry on The Ten Biggest South African Tree Species to subedit, and I think it's fantastic. I have a book on Remarkable Trees of the World at home, and I'm familiar with many of them, particularly those incredible baobabs.

I've almost finished, but I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following questions for me:



1. Do you have the publisher and date for this reference?



2. Do you know when? 'Recently' is a bit vague.



3. Why does the excellence of the timber have a bearing on whether it may exist in a remote ravine? I didn't understand.



4. Why do you say it's one of the thickest (at 5.09 metres), when the Baobab can be 15.9 metres thick?

Icy

Hi, wish it was my entry, but it's not, I just took it through PR for Case as he's short of time (RL and internetwise). I think it's great too.

1) A half answer - 'Remarkable Trees' is from Briza Publications http://briza.co.za/bookstore/product_info.php?products_id=50

No date there but Case might have that.

2) I'm sure I saw a news item around the time Case posted that as a ‘News Flash’ in February, but can’t find it again. I’m hoping Case will have more details, though I’ll do some more googling myself. It woud be good to have something concrete given all the unsubstantiated ages out on the web. H2g2’s own Baobab entry claims 3000 years.

This http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/GetFileServlet?file=file:///data1/pdf/Radiocarbon/Volume6/Number1/azu_radiocarbon_v6_31_36_v.pdf&type=application/pdf is the best I've found yet and seems (to my amateur reading) to be saying a 15’ diameter tree was 1000+/- 100 years old, and that 20+’ trees would be older.


3) I see what you mean – it’s more that the excellence of their timber means those found are likely to be felled before reaching their potential size and that it’s therefore likely there are larger specimens to be found in inacessible places.

The original, undethirdpersonsated by me, sentence says "I believe there may be specimens bigger than these ‘official’ champions in some remote ravines somewhere, where woodcutters haven’t been able to get to them yet … their inaccessibility also having made things difficult for botanists. I’ve personally seen some trees that looked like record-breakers to me, but I’ve been unable to measure them accurately."

How about “Given the excellence of their timber makes it likely that specimens found are felled before reaching their potential size, there is every chance there may be trees bigger than these 'official' champions in some inacessible ravine.”?

4) I suggest “The champion white stinkwood is stated as standing at 39 metres tall, with a spread of 19.7 metres, and a trunk girth of 5.05 metres. This would make this individual one of the thickest trees, the baobab species excepted, in the country.”

I’ll point him to this thread, then he can confirm on these and add more. He usually checks in to h2g2 on Sundays.



Do the incredible baobabs in your tree book include the baobabs in Madagascar? They are absolutely fantastic – I’d give a lot to see those one day. I'm glad to have actually stood under a baobab, but it wasn't a giant one.

Waz

Hello! It is Sunday and I am here. To answer the questions:

1. 'Remarkable Trees of South Africa' first edition published 2001

2. I read the information about the age of the largest baobab in the country in the newspaper and it was probably within a week of posting the new information here as a 'news flash'. This would have been in the Afrikaans newspaper 'Beeld' but unfortunately I haven't kept the copy. At the time I had no idea this was going to stand a chance of becoming a Guide Entry so I didn't bother with adding all the details. I will see if I can get anything concrete about the 'age' issue. If we can't substantiate this, we can leave it out of the entry, and just put in a link to the radiocarbon dating info Waz posted there.

3. I suggest, simply: "Because of the excellence of its timber, many of the largest Outeniqua Yellowwoods have been cut down. But there may be specimens bigger than these ‘official’ champions in some remote ravines somewhere, where woodcutters haven’t been able to get to them yet … their inaccessibility also having made things difficult for botanists." Leave out my comment about the possible contenders I've seen.

Oh sorry, there's still a bit more.

4. Even compared to baobab trees, a 5.05 m thick White Stinkwood is very thick. The 15.9 m thick Baobab we have here is a freak individual. So too are others that exceed 10 m in thickness. Indeed you won't even easily find a baobab over 5 m thick!

In a list of the top 28 'big trees' of South Africa, the White Stinkwood comes eighth in terms of thickness: only five baobabs beat it, as well as a Red-leaved Fig, a Wonderboom Fig, and a Leadwood. Which, I think, *does* make it *one* of the thickest trees in the country. That is to say *if* the statistic is reliable. In my original entry I actually expressed some doubt about this.

We might still play it Waz's way, excepting the baobabs.

I hope to see those Madagascan Baobabs one day! I am utterly fascinated by the island of Madagascar, and I hope to pay it a very intensive and prolonged visit one day. I only hope those trees are still standing, then!

Oops another little mistake! If eight trees beat the White Stinkwood, it of course comes *ninth* on the list. Ninth out of twenty eight is not bad.

Hi .

Been googling again - this site http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/adansondigit.htm , connected to the South African National Biodiversity Institute reports 'more recent work' suggesting trees of diameters of 10 m being as old as 2000 years. It seems a pretty good site.

It's tempting to email and ask if they've more details. But it seems a bit cheeky.

Hi Waz! That PlantZAfrica site is great for information about South African trees and other plants! I've used it myself a lot already. I think at any rate we should give a link to it for the info about baobab ages. Indeed I think we could give links under the other species as well for which they have photos and info on PlantZAfrica.

I'll see if I can do some more digging myself to come up with something concrete about the baobab ages but it'll take some time!

Thanks Waz, Case,

I've made those changes, but I left that official reference to the Baobab aging as just "In 2007, ...".

As we're fairly short of material for the Front Page, I'd prefer to submit it as soon as possible - you can get the curators to update it if you subsequently find something which would strengthen this bit.

The Edited version is at A22716713. Let me know what you think, but if I don't hear from you, I'll probably send it back to the Eds on Wednesday.

My book is "Remarkable Trees of the World", which is great on the Madagascar Baobabs, but I think I'll need the author's earlier book "Meetings with Remarkable Trees" for some of the others you mention. My book does have one of the fig specimens, though. I think these books were part of a BBC TV series.

Icy

Thanks Icy North, it looks good to me bar a couple of capitals, however it really ought to be Case who signs off - but he only gets on the internet at weekends as a rule.

I know he was going to try to find a photo for it. Wilma's been giving Case directions to the Photographers' group.

The couple of capitals - one is a capital that shouldn't be, in 2) on Yellowwood in "many of the largest Outeniqua Yellowwoods have been cut down." and one is one that should be but isn't in Matumi in "The matumi is more of an upright, straight and narrow kind of tree." in 4). Matumi's a river name if I remember right.

The only other thing is - it really should only have Case's name on it, the content is all his. I didn't do anymore than GML and house-style stuff. And I did that with an UnderGuide hat on. Can you pass it on with just Case's U-number attached, Icy? Is that possible?



For Case's info - the Curators -> A7947147. They're another h2g2 development you might not know of. They've access to Edited Entries for minor corrections and updates.

PS, I have 'The Remarkable Baobab' book - full of stunning baobab photos. There's an aerial view of a forest in Madagaskar with over thirty baobabs scattered through it.

Thanks LLWaz,

As I said, they're desperate for FP material, so I think I'd better submit it. I've fixed that capitalisation and removed your U-number from it, as you requested.

The quick way to get minor corrections is to post a new thread on <./>Feedback-Editorial</.> Make the subject line something like "EF: A123456 SA Trees" - it's the convention the curators use.

Icy

ps. The campaign for a smiley starts here!

Cheers Icy.

With you on the campaign. It's a disgrace the only tree smiley is a _felled_ xmas tree !

I've a half written EG entry, perhaps I should finish it off.
Waz

And it's on the Front Page today!

Case, photos can be added at any time these days, so you can still do that.

WHUTT??!! On the Front Page?!

Waz, thanks! Why not have your name on it? Without you it never would have been an Edited Entry!

As for photos: I have been digging around my hard drive for photos and I've found quite a few ones that might be good for this entry, but I'm not sure if they would make much sense in the 200x200 pixel format they want here. Most of them are not *square* ... because baobabs are often significantly broader than they are tall, while the ana tree of which I have a photo is significantly taller than broad. Also for instance in many of my photos there are human beings next to the trees to give an indication of the scale. For instance I photographed my parents standing next to the ana tree. But on such a small picture the people will be completely unrecognisable tiny little blips.

I'm with you in the cause of getting a baobab smiley!

I know, quick turn around these days! I saw a post from Gnomon mentioning there were only enough EG entries in the pipeline for 12 days.

There's more than that in Peer Review, mind.

If we finish the lammageier entry, it would be good to share the 'written by' box, but the content and writing on this one's all yours. What I did was more like ... preliminary editing.

Photos - would part of a tree give the right feel of giganticness? Some of the Photographers' photos are quite inventive - but Wilma could help better on that.

Waz (off to other thread)

I'll really see about that lammergeyer entry! It deserves to get finished!

Isn't there a way to credit you for editing or preliminary editing or whatever?

I've sent some photos to Wilma ... she might see what she can do with them.