h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Thanks for the post Ron. All I will say is "Mission accomplished, Sir" Counted them out and counted them in!

And of course I remember The Dambusters

<< I am not going to give it to you directly, because it is Non PC now, to do so>>

No, it would not be "un-PC" it would be stating an historical fact. Once you start tippexing out historical fact because it may offend people too touchy or too insular to actually realise that merely stating history is just that we have lost.

It used to be that the winners rewrote history. These days it is the people who believe it is their right to make sure no-one offends anyone else that has started to make society become a twitchy, sanitised world and it will get to the point that any innoccous comment will be offensive..and that's when wars start. We are evolving into an emotionally thin-skinned society - I suggest whenever someone says something insulting the question: "And your point is?" should be asked mainly because there is no point to an insult and so the insulter is left without a comeback apart from going for a punch...so I suggest backing away at the same time.

Went off on one there! but that is the jist of this thread.

See you around

Alf

I was once on a forum of historians who work mostly with the South American conquests. And their concern was about referring to the 'Indians' as Indians in their papers. They didn't want to offend, as these days the Indians prefer to be called something else.

I think that when writing about historical things happening at a particular time it is quite correct to use the words that were used at that time.

Likewise historical studies done about black people in the US that refer to them as 'negroes'. Perhaps with a note that this terminology is being used as what was 'acceptable' at that time. I dunno, reading a history about black people in the US in, say 1850, and have them referred to as Afro-Americans would sound somewhat 'out of time' for what the piece was about. Does this make sense?

Is it possible to never offend anybody?


az

Hi Azzie

"Is it possible to never offend anybody?"

No, and it matters not your intent. Political correctness is the first step towards Newspeak and the rule of Big Blair. As such I oppose it utterly.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Oi, don't call me Azzie! I find it terribly offensive!


az
(not azzie)

Hi again,Alf.,
You know,Alf,all I can do is agree wholeheartedly with what you say; because it is EXACTLY how I think too!

Over and out!
Ron

Ah, a welcome addition to the site then

That's our terribly discerning Alfster talking!


az

Don't knock Alf, Azahar. Seems a good hearted bloke to me!

Ronbloggs

"Political correctness is the first step towards Newspeak and the rule of Big Blair. As such I oppose it utterly."

So you refer to black people as "N*ggers", disabled people as "spazes" ect?

Thought not. Nothing wrong with political correctness par se IMHO just the over the top usage of it.

On the topic of newspeak I suppose in a way it is. PC recognises that language is *far* from neutral and the language we use effects the way we think. Consequently there are times when inappropriote language might well lead to inappropriote action. If it does then I am all for getting rid of the inappropriote language.

Hi Az,
Short answer: no.
Nobody can ever be liked by everybody. Some are offended merely by the sight, or presence of others. It's the way of the world I'm afraid. Whatever one says to some people it will never be right, even to compliment them!
Ronbloggs

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Of course he is! That's why I tease him. What else are friends for?

az

Hello Mr.Ferretbadger

No I don't call people 'n*ggers', or any other expletive. There again I don't demand that the local education authority ban the teaching of 'Baa,Baa, Black Sheep' either.

The minute you begin editing the dictionary to change the way people think is the moment you begin the slide into a fascistic nightmare.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

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He is. He's lovely.

And as for using/reclaiming the c-word, I'm all for it.

There's a section on it in 'The Vagina Monologues'

Ice.

_"My uncle had a black lab called Kafir. Just so he could stand in the park and shout 'come here kafir, you black bxstxrd'.

Blacky was the name of my grandparents poodle-cross dog till they adopted me.

They thought it wouldnt look to good calling that out in the local park when I was with them

"The minute you begin editing the dictionary to change the way people think is the moment you begin the slide into a fascistic nightmare."

Come on what melodramatic tosh.

All societies try to socialise their people by a variety of factors, including use of language. It has been going on for years and I am pretty sure it will continue.

Like I said Words, phrases and language ect is *not* neutral. Language has connotations, subtleties and different meanings. That means by using say language in one way subtle prejudices can be being re-inforced. Not in a grandstanding way, you know a perfectly reasonable person calls a gay man "Queer" once and realises that "Queer" also means stange and bec omes homophobic.

But more subtley, children from an early age if the refer to gay people as queer, and also understand that queer means strange it will reinforce that connection in them over time. It was no accident that the term was coined in the first place...

I am not ridiculous and I accept that there have been the occasional cases of what our right wing media describe as "Political Correctness Gone Mad", but nowhere near as many as the Dail Mail/Express/Sun access would have you believe.

The best example of this is the one about "Manhole covers" being changed to "Personhole covers". Sounds ridiculous, loony left feminist rantings eh? Of course it was absolute tosh, they wished to change the name to "Access Hole". Now can you honestly tell me that "Manhole cover" is a better descriptive term for what it is? I am guessing no. Similarly their is an emphasis with "Manhole cover" on for exactly whom that work should belong.

If you want my opinion on what is begining our slide into a "fascistic nightmare." it is the continual moves by government in the name of safety to remove any kind of private sphere. The usage of the "If you have nothing to hide then why are youi worried" argument. The fact that I cannot walk anywhere public without being filmed. The fact that security agencies can bug my phone without even asking a judge. The fact that I might be subjected to internment.

Changing our language subtly (which happens anyway) to make the world a little less prejudiced is the *least* of our worries.

Hi to all my female friends

<<"Political correctness is the first step towards Newspeak and the rule of Big Blair. As such I oppose it utterly."

So you refer to black people as "N*ggers", disabled people as "spazes" ect?

Thought not. Nothing wrong with political correctness par se IMHO just the over the top usage of it.>>

The two examples you give are not political correctness. Saying those two things is considered offensive these days and should be blanked out. Blanking out the name of Guy Gibsons dog is the offensive thing to do as it is historical censorship. Calling dogs *igge* was 'OK' 50 years ago we know that and hence we may raise an eyebrow but thats the way it is and puts the period into context.

If you erase the word totally, at some point, do you not think it would come back into use as the accepted offensiveness of it would have been lost and people would start to let it creep back into use in an offensive way and the cycle would start again?

<<"Access Hole">>

Childish giggle

Well, quite. Wouldn't take much work on that with a spray can, now would it?

"The two examples you give are not political correctness. Saying those two things is considered offensive these days and should be blanked out. "



What? Now how do you think they changed from being everyday phrases to being offensive Alfster?

Well here is the thing they became "Politically Incorrect", now those particular peices of PC have become so engrained in the popular conciousness (at least in public) that people think it is just right and don't bat an eyelid. But here is the thing people worked to stop the term n*gger from being used. When they did this they were rallying against un-PC.

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When it was realised that the word could be used with vitriol to insult people - it is one of those hard sounding words that when said in the right way can sound insulting. A bit like c**t another hard word. Was that offensive from the first moment it was used? I doubt it - and it really isn;t *that* offensive now when you really think about it.

However, the meaning of n****r changed when its use changed - from the description of a black person to being given as a demeaning belittling word.(from the Latin nigre btw it also used to be simply a word to describe a shade of black). When words start to be used in a way in which they are seen to be derogatory *that* is when you get the change to it being unacceptable.

The word P*ki with an "a" is now unacceptable but why isn't Brit or Aussie or Scot? They are contractions of a persons original country? It is because P*ki is used as an insult...and again it has the typical hard sounding letters in it that really make a word good at creating the right feel of hatred etc. You just don;t get the same fell with the phrase "You stupid Limey" as you do with the phrase "You stupid P*ki" as Limey is a nice soft sounding word.

The issue I have with pc-ness is that people sit down and look at words and phrases and just try to pull-out anything that could be offensive e.g. the word brainstorm is now unacceptable in a lot of places as it *might* be offensive to people with epilepsy as it *could* describe an epileptic fit. The phrase now is thought-shower. I still use brainstorm but a couple of times my mind has gone - hey, should you be using that word it is becoming socially unacceptable? Well, yes I should use it because it does not describe an epileptic fit in anyway! It isn't used as an offensive phrase towards people with epilepsy but by some people making a vague connection that it might mean this suddenly it has become unacceptable in various organisations.

In fact the community use the word and seem to embrace it.

http://pages.ivillage.com/brainstormbear/id1.html



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No they became a word that changed its meaning to be a insulting derogatory word - THAT'S when you start to reassess things.

And it is good to see that alot of people are reassessing the word c**t and reclaiming it - and desensitising people to it's harsh-sounding nature.