h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Spynxxx,

I thought I'd say hello and introduce myself properly after we've talked/discussed in several threads now.
You seem to be the most moderate of the 'underdogs' as I call them secretly by myself.

When I was new to hootoo, I was subscribed to the AWW. I never intended to write for it, but I loved reading the stories, and sometimes, I commented on them - but very rarely. Nobody took any notice of me anyway, and after a while, I stopped the reading, and the commenting. I occasionally read an entry that's on the FP, and I usually comment on it when I do. My friend PBS writes the most wonderful entries, and I know that his story about the ant problem will hit the FP soon. I think it's ´sad that people feel there's such a great divide between UG and EG, both make for good reading.


It took me several years before I ventured into PR. I'm not a gifted writer and I lack imagination, but I can write factual entries about things I know or have researched, so I'm quite happy to have 'found my place' within this community. I even started writing for on a regular basis - no fiction, though, but not EG style, either. I'd never try to suggest how entries for the UG should be written, and I think the fact that suddenly the UG people are trying to tell how EG entries should be written is what upsets so many - that, and the often aggressive tone they portray. And it's not only me feeling that - even Rich is scared of treading on some UG people's toes, and he's a whole lot more confident than me.
So, there you have 'the enemy' - scray, ain't I?

Hiya B'Elana,

You beat me to the punch though I've had it in mind to come visit You as well. I thought it best to allow things to settle a bit since the debate upon my return was turning into a swift road to no where...unhealthy and unproductive for both camps really.

As far as moderate, well that I can't agree with that as Jodan/Jordan is a much more reasoned debater than I as well as a far more rounded individual in terms of h2g2 in general. Me? I'm sort of UGcentric at best and NOT a writer in any sense of the word, never have been and most likely never will be. I do like to read though and have the knack for seperating the wheat from the chaff so mining in the AWW just seems to be the best fit.

I must say that I'm, shocked isn't the right word, dismayed that's it(plus how often does one get to use it) that anyone could think that the current debate is exactly current at all. In fact it's one which has raged on and off for the better part of seven plus years in one form or another. Then again I really shouldn't be all that suprised as I found an author(a teacher no less) who'd no clue as to what the AWW was all about and that with a join date of 2001!!!

Sometimes these things go on and on but unless one is subbed to everything they simply pass you by. Point of fact, I found the current thread we've been 'chatting' on while lurking for new material to submit to the AWW, sheer chance and me 'activly' involved to boot

To clarify things a bit not one single UnderDog (mmmmmmmm, that does roll off the tongue quite nicely ) anyways nobody down UG way has any intention of ever telling anyone how to write. Rather we'd simply like to allow a bit more leeway in what constitutes the Guidelines or at least there interpretation of them.

Take pinniped for example, one of this sites best writers in either genre. If you were to look at some of his work BEFORE it's been watered down to fit inside the box that are the GL's as they stand you'd find work that has true soul, the kind of thing you look forward to reading. That same thing AFTER it's been cut to meet those same GL's is but a pale imitation of the original. Sure, still a good read but like bread on the shelf for to long what was once tasty and satisfying becomes stale and dry.

There's also the speculation that changing the rules would allow sub standard work to proliferate. To that I respond with an emphatic NO! If anything I believe the bar will actually be raised as researchers will force themselves to strech to attain the level of Pin and the like, a situation which will breath life into so many entries and thus bring in a wider audience.

Now for me, I love to read. Somedays I polish off entire novels and yes, with full retention of the content. Ask me if I can plow through most of the stuff in the EG and my answer will be a swift no. Sure, some of it is good but a practised eye can see the potential greatness that lies beneath, waiting to be unchained from the restrictions that have always bound.

There's no reason an entry that is suitable today won't be suitable tommorrow no matter what the scheme is. Rather it would allow those capable to do what they do best, write with style, flair and passion, a win/win for the EG and author alike. What I think some fear is being shown up and quite frankly they would. Then again I wouldn't think to keep up with an olympic sprinter either, nor a healthy 16 year old for that matter. But, and this is important, the EG isn't a competition.

Why fear if some do something better, heck, there's always someone somewhere who can do something better. I don't put you in this catagory by the way. Trust me, I'm a lurker of some skill and if I thought you to be anything but a wonderful person I wouldn't waste time in trying to converse with you but the simple fact is that I both like and respect you and your opinions. Have for a while in fact

A quick preview shows I'm up to my usual lonnnnngggggggggggg post so I'll cut it short before your eyes bug out completly. Before I go though I do want to invite you to carry on this convo as I feel that much can be accomplished in a meeting of the minds on such neutral ground, besides which we might just become fast friends in the process no matter what turn the debate takes and that in itself is worth the effort

Thanks for your wonderful reply, I'll get back to it whzen I've got some sleep - if you're in the UK, I'm one hour ahead in time, so it is very late here now.

Have a good night.

Central US (Wisconsin to be precise)

Sweet Dreams

Oh, so about six hours behind in time? It's 1.00 am here.

Talk later.

Hello Spynxxx, here I am back as promised.

I'll try to reply to the various points you made now:

>>As far as moderate, well that I can't agree with that as Jodan/Jordan is a much more reasoned debater than I as well as a far more rounded individual in terms of h2g2 in general<

I can't say I know Jodan, I remember him as being very busy in the run-up to the elections for hootoo president as Hyp's vice, and I once went to his space to ask about an entry he had had in PR ages ago, and I was interested in the subject. That's it. In the recent debates, *you* were the only one who came across as reasonable (to me, at least), and prepared to look for some common ground, as well as not being offensive in any way - and that's exactly whta brought me here, and nowhere else.

>>I must say that I'm, shocked isn't the right word, dismayed ...Then again I really shouldn't be all that suprised as I found an author(a teacher no less) who'd no clue as to what the AWW was all about and that with a join date of 2001!!!<<

I don't think there's a reason for that. When I joined the site in 2003, I had absolutely no idea what it was about. I had found the link to it in 'the Salmon of Doubt' and I was curious, so I had a look. Read the houserules and felt safe (the internet as such was new to me then, all I had ever done before, was using it for emails), so I thought this could be the perfect site to improve my English and maybe find some friends. Turned out I got both.
Like I said, I regularly read the AWW back then, without having a clue how it worked or what exactly it was there for. It took me much, much longer to discover the EG - so there.

I was completely unaware of any 'wars' raging on, even the so-called 'Della' wars passed me by, and only came to my attention when they were over.

This site is huge, and it is entirely possible to be a member without discovering all its possibilities for years.

>>anyways nobody down UG way has any intention of ever telling anyone how to write. Rather we'd simply like to allow a bit more leeway in what constitutes the Guidelines or at least there interpretation of them. <<

See, that's you being moderate.
It's not exactly how it came across from the other UGers at times, and I dare say that for every UGer who wants them loosened, you'll find at least one EGer who's content with the status quo and will defend it.

>>Take pinniped for example, one of this sites best writers in either genre.<<

I've read Pin's recent Guide entries, they're brilliant, and nobody watered them down. I know he has asked for the guidelines to be interpreted in a more relaxed way on and off, but he also said:

>>The Guidelines wouldn't be too bad if they were just guidelines. There are only about two places in the subtext where they say something truly stupid. There are actually several places where they say something a lot more sensible than the prevailing interpretation of them.<<

So, I think it's not necessarily the guidelines that need to be changed, but more the interpretation of them, and it does look as if people are prepared to accept the unusual stuff - at least many scouts are.

>>There's also the speculation that changing the rules would allow sub standard work to proliferate. <<

I don't really think people are afraid of sub-standard work, but more of the 'personal experience' stuff which is not based on verifyable facts. If you are a bit clever (and a 'respected' researcher), you'll still get it in, though, it all depends on how you word it.

>>I believe the bar will actually be raised as researchers will force themselves to strech to attain the level of Pin and the like<<

There will always be some who really care and try to improve, and then there'll always be those who don't give a damn. If I started to compare myself with Pinniped or a few others, I'd never write an entry again, because I'll never ever get even near them. Still, the entries I have written so far, I've written to the best of my knowledge and my possibilities, and relied on PR to make them the best they can get. If you care to have a look at the titles, you'll find that a large number of them are about customs and traditions and oddities where I live, so a mixture of personal experience and facts.

>>Sure, some of it is good but a practised eye can see the potential greatness that lies beneath, waiting to be unchained from the restrictions that have always bound.
<<

Well, I won't deny that you'll find this in some entries, but speaking for mine: they are the best I could do. This is my style, and I don't think there's potential greatness lying beneath, guide lines or no,

>>What I think some fear is being shown up and quite frankly they would<<

To be honest, I don't think the vast majority has these fears. It's only those who doubt themselves and the quality of their entries anyway who'll maybe stop writing. I know that, I'm frequently torn about whether or not I should write for the guide. Take my last submission: I had shown a friend the first paragraph and he said he was intrigued. Then when I had submitted it and he had read the whole entry, he was thoroughly disappointed. He didn't say so, but I knew it from his comment nevertheless. So now I wonder: do I try to write yet another entry, giving him what he seems to have expected, or am I so disheartened that I stop writing at all for a good while?
Currently, I tend to go for the latter. I may change my mind, though.

>>Why fear if some do something better, heck, there's always someone somewhere who can do something better. I don't put you in this catagory by the way. Trust me, I'm a lurker of some skill and if I thought you to be anything but a wonderful person I wouldn't waste time in trying to converse with you but the simple fact is that I both like and respect you and your opinions. Have for a while in fact <<

Why, thank you ever so much. It's funny, I can never imagine that somebody I haven't really talked to could be interested enough in me to actually go to my PS and try to get an impression.
I'm sorry, I can't say that I noticed you before all these recent debates, but then I'm not much of a lurker, and from what I gather from your PS, you haven't been around for a while, so maybe it's not all that surprising. I've now read your PS and I found your Important Information for Writers. Would you be interested to submit it to ? The more people read it, the better, I'd think. The next 'normal' Post issue will be published on 17th January, so that leaves you with a lot of time to think about it.


>>A quick preview shows I'm up to my usual lonnnnngggggggggggg post so I'll cut it short before your eyes bug out completly. Before I go though I do want to invite you to carry on this convo as I feel that much can be accomplished in a meeting of the minds on such neutral ground, besides which we might just become fast friends in the process no matter what turn the debate takes and that in itself is worth the effort<<



A quick preview shows that my post is just as long (it only looks longer because I included most of your post here for reference purposes), and I really should be doing some editing for Christmas Competition.
I agree with your sentiment, and I'm looking forward to talking with you and becoming friends.
I'll try to keep any further posts a bit shorter, though, as this one is nearly fit for a Random Rambling article (lengthwise).

Hello B'Elana,

I'd say goodmorning but it's not, either here or there. Sleeping in on a lazy Sunday morn is one of life's guilty pleasures though sadly I'm lacking the fixings for a proper brunch. Instead it's just coffee, strong and black, the breakfast of champions

There's something I'd like to say up front, in fact I nearly got up in the dead of night it bothered me so. The UnderGuide is in no way, shape or form behind any of the discusions about the Guidelines and I wouldn't want anyone to think that it was a UG vs EG sort of thing. True, a lot of the proponents for new 'interpretation' of the GL's are associated with the UG but they are speaking as individuals and not as representitives.

Whew, that was worrying me as some might take some of this out of context and start slinging mud, not a situation anyone needs. Now on with the show.

Might as well get the history down so we both know the maps which brought us here. My journey began within the first two weeks of having a computer. I happened to be doing research on a Triumph Motorcycle and ran across a link to h2g2 and seeing the BBC part figured it would provide really good data. After reading the Entry (which didn't really help BTW) I saw the Front Page button and was transported to the craziest place I'd ever seen. In fact I went back and forth several times just to see if an 'error' had occured but once that was settled I took a peek at the current talking point, got involved in a couple of threads with some fantastic researchers and, Hey Presto!!! I was hooked.

Now I jumped into the PR that first week but this was back when there were countless entries and I'll confess there were a lot of not so nice folks making comments. Pretentious would be the term that sums it up, folks acting as if they knew more than the author and demanding changes when in fact they where wrong as I was an 'expert' already on some of the very things they where debating. In fact I tracked the outcome and found many simply left the site never to return, mostly younger people who'e yet to develop the leathery hide of an adult.

And then it happened, I clicked the link to the weeks UnderGuide Front Page submission and the rest is history. I started at one end of the archives and commenced to reading my way to the other, commenting along the way as I assumed this was what one did. Now the UG archives are a special place, the best of the best only and at only 52 entries a year (or 104 if biweekly and if quality allows) my comments ended up drawing some of the sites best and brightest to come calling. Later I noticed that commenting down there in those hallowed halls was rare as hens teeth but at the time I just assumed it was par for the course.

And so it was that the first researchers I made friends with were the likes of Hypatia and A Girl Called Ben, heavy hitters to be sure. An invite from Ben lead my to become a Miner and the rest is history, not all of it pleasent but then again history seldom is. Sometimes I think it was the way in which I was introduced that made me who I am here as I've never felt the trepedition that so many seem to have felt when entering the labrinith that is hootoo.

Now I'm not the least bit suprised that we'd never conversed before as I for the most part restricted myself to the AWW as it was almost a full time job keeping up with the AWW output and help is always in short supply, all these researchers but where are the vollunteers? Oh well, it seems as if those best suited usually find their own nitche and make it a better and brighter place for all, just as you yourself do for Peer Review and the Edited Guide.

By the way, Thank you . I think what you do is important and underaprreciated by many who have no idea of the hard work and dedication it takes to be a vollunteer. I do.

Ummmmmmmm, in case you hadn't noticed I do tend to write more than a fair bit so I'll simply quit while I'm ahead and start a completly new post with the promise to attempt breviety. You'll notice I say attepmt so don't hold me to it should I go on...and on...and on. See you there

Spy

Crazy coincidence but I was reading some of that very dialog while posting on the 'Moderation' tread. It was from post war time and still the battle raged even after Apple/Della had sought refuge in anothers space. It is this sort of thing which shows just why being moderate is essential. For the record I also had nothing to do with the 'war' and only ran across it in passing while floating around the site in general on UG buisness so we're on even ground there and most likely both glad it's so...war is hell!




It was at that time the dumping ground for a lot of what wasn't allowed in the EG. See, the seeds of this battle are deeply rooted, in fact they go back a couple of years before that. Who was to blame? Not the Vollunteers in PR. No, it was up the chain and into the rarified environs of the towers that it took place, simple minded BBC personal whom felt threatened by a bunch of 'amatuers' and thought to curtail the output by rigidly enforcing their own personal 'interpretation' of the GL's. Sadly what was a personal became policy and now we all suffer to this very day from decisions made by those long gone.

That's what lead to the formation of the UnderGuide, a place for beautiful entries that where judged 'unfit' by the powers that be to have a chance to shine rather than be buried in the AWW under the weight of time and more entries. Some of the absolute best material in the UG archives is stuff that was just outside the box that is the GL's as they are/were enforced.

What lot's don't understand is that the UnderGuide itself would be a poorer place without such entries but as it's looked upon as the ugly stepsister of the EG writers don't get the same appreciation even if it's only on a personal level. When all the focus is on the EG it can only seem so though I feel the UG is essential to the site as it provides a place for one to express one's self from the level of the soul, a place where 'fact' usually runs a distant second

Confusing to many as well are the inner workings of the site, a mystery to most of those who comment on the various discussion threads. It's only when you see behind the scenes in the offsite forums and are privy to that which we don't discuss here does it all make sense. Even there the layers are thick. I don't talk to the italics off site, that's the Ed's on another account, then it comes down to the volunteers on a seperate account and then onto a general populous of researchers, most of who are completly unaware of ANY offsite communication. And there you have it, the recipe for disaster

That's a real catch-22 in itself as the main protaganists in the 'battles' are aware of what the other 99.9% of the researchers are not. This leaves the door open for misunderstanding to be had as neither side has any way of seeing eye to eye and thus never reach any sort of agreement. And so the battle rages ever on without the fact that evryone's goal is EXACTLY the same...a better and stronger h2g2 for EVERYONE.

And I'm off, my latest rant a bit more on the bite size level...at least for a typical German meal, something my German Grandmother and my German first wife taught me one belly bursting lesson at a time

Spy

I'm just replying to your first post - or at least I'm trying, my brain is a bit foggy right now.

What's a typical German meal then for you?
My brother in law (a muslim), once yelled at me: Oh, you Germans, you eat sausages with everything!

And with that, I'm back to my post in progress.

>>The Guidelines wouldn't be too bad if they were just guidelines. There are only about two places in the subtext where they say something truly stupid. There are actually several places where they say something a lot more sensible than the prevailing interpretation of them.<<



Exactly! Folks on BOTH sides are starting to push the envelope again and the simple fact is that it's having some bit of success. The problem is when it comes to final approval for the Front Page that things get sticky. Now you may not find Pin's stuff watered down but it's like a drink that you've held in hand for too long, the ice slowly melting to dilute the contents The fact that he is in the top 1% of great writers on site covers up a lot but I see his pain in ways others may not. The true test will be to run a piece that not only pushs the boundries but blows them wide open, most likely one which has already been tried to no success due to sheer stubborness to follow what was the interpretation of the GL's to the letter...or at least the letter as was writ by some less than inspired italic in days gone by



Read the 'Flixsburough' entry? Not all that is fact is verifiable when much of it's history is word of mouth and personal recollection. Does that make it any less true? More importantly does that make it any less valid as true research? Lucky we have the UG so such isn't lost but my feeling and that of many is that this is EG material, it just doesn't fit in the GL box of today though there's always tommorrow

Have you noticed a new interest in the site by the powers that be? It seems as if someone really cares and rather than play the powertripping, pigheaded overseer with a God complex there is genuine concern. A sharp eye can tell when they're about, what threads they're keeping track of and most importantly why. Which ever way this may all turn out in the end fact that alone gives me true hope for this place and I'm glad for it. Despite what some may say about us being a 'back alley shop' or 'out on the fringes of the web' we have and always will be a ray of sunshine in an otherwise harsh and bleak world. That is worth fighting for in my opinion and yours as well if I read you correctly...and I think I do

Spy

Hello spy - I've seen you sign with that name, so I guess it should be Ok calling you so.

My friends call me Bel, btw.


I'm just back from a sort of 'pre-christmas' meal with the m-i-l, as she'll visit her sister over christmas.
After two glasses of , I'm a bit 'squiffy' as my friend lil would call it.
Have you met her? I think I can say she's the most popular ace around, people in need for help usually post to her PS directly, instead of posting to the aces homepage.
If your spare time allows for it, you're very welcome in my Yikes journal
F127730?thread=3848857&latest=1

where all friends are welcome, and where we have a lot of 'inane chatter' as some envious people call it - in other words, we're having a lot of fun.


I'm sorry that the UG vs EG misunderstanding bugged you so much, but I'm glad you made it clear that this is just coincidental that all those asking for the change of the guidelines are from the UG, but still speaking for themselves.

Are you short of volunteers for the UG? I never had the impression, but then I have to admit that I really don't know enough about it to judge. I'll make it a point to mention it in my next RR next year, as I feel I've left it out so far, which I'm ashamed to say. It's not really been on my mind, but it's just as important to the site as is The Post. So if you'd like to fill me in on what's going on in the UG (either by telling me or by posting me the links), I'll include it in future articles. Nothing much will come of it, though, but by and by I found out that I do indeed have a few regular readers, and who knows? One or two of them may get curious and go exploring.
Well, I've seen there's a new post to reply to now, so I'll post this so you don't feel like talking to yourself, and then I'll try to reply to your next two posts.

A typical German meal was usually five courses or so and prepared in quantities large enough to feed a small village. "Oh, have some more" was the word of the day and when it was prepared with such skill and love you wouldn't say no, couldn't in fact because it was just that good. Of course Grandma cooked professionally so it was a given really

One of the only fond memories I have of my first wife (whom I usually refer to as "The Bitch")was cooking together. We'd shop together at the end of the day and then bring home our fresh morsels to be prepared in a consert, each flowing about the kitchen like dancers as we chopped, braised and stired the various pots that bubbled merrily on the stove. That was as much fun as the eating really. The only other thing she was good for, well that to was a dance of another sort, the details of which would get me modded quicker than you can write 'I' in a Guide entry

I actually wanted to become a chef and before that a botanist but in the end became a sailor in the Navy in order to escape a broken heart

trying to catch uo

>>It was at that time the dumping ground for a lot of what wasn't allowed in the EG. See, the seeds of this battle are deeply rooted, in fact they go back a couple of years before that. Who was to blame? Not the Vollunteers in PR.<<

Really? I distinctly remember having read stories by somebody called Flameofgold, and I loved her(?) stories, in fact, they kept me subscribed there for a good while. I even remember that she later submitted one of her entries (Men, Body, Beautiful) to PR - but that was before I was involved in PR, so I just saw the result.
So, personally, I never knew the AWW was considered to be the dumping ground for 'failed' or 'unsuitable' EG entries. I experienced it as a ground for fiction, narration, prose - whatever you want to call it. I have fond memories of some of the stories I read back then, so clearly, they left an impression on me.

I guess that explains why I've never completely understood the difference between the AWW and the UG. I used to link to both in my Ace message, I think, but all got lost with a mainboard crash a feww months ago,, so I rewrote it to suit the appeals of all to stress the importance of the EG. I guess I should amend my ace message, too.

>>That's a real catch-22 in itself as the main protaganists in the 'battles' are aware of what the other 99.9% of the researchers are not.<<

You know, I think I much prefer that most people are not aware that some communication is going on offsite, because the few who are usually get the wrong end of the stick and think we are privy to secret information, or the eds' pets or some such nonsense.

>> but as it's looked upon as the ugly stepsister of the EG<<

Personally, I nwever considered it like that, and when I saw something that wouldn't fit the EG but was well written, I often suggested the AWW for it - because I thought people there would look out for good stuff. Unfortunately, it didn't always work out, so I was more and more wary of suggesting it at all.

That was before either of our times really. I've been from one end of the AWW to the other, or at least up to the point I left the site for personal reasons. It's amazing what reading so many years worth of posts can have on your perseption as the deeper insight of all that came before imprints on the mind. Of course that sort of thing isn't encouraged anymore unless a failed entry seems suitable for the AWW and it's up to the wisdom of those such as yourself to suggest so and thank you for it as some are top notch reads even if they never attain UG status. That sometimes the authors feel that their stuff is of higher quality than some others is were the problem lies.

Now as for Flame's work, well she and I became quite close and still communicate even though she's long left the place behind. In fact I've a copy of a book of short stories, one of which is hers from the UG. A talented individual and a wonderful person, the site needs more like her IMO. And no, it wasn't anything here that caused her departure, just life moving on as it is wont to do.



I feel your pain. It's at times a curse but a nessesity if one is to conduct buisness without causing strife due to hurt feelings. If they were privy to some of the battles that have occured there they'd be singing a different tune I'm sure!

>> but as it's looked upon as the ugly stepsister of the EG<<



Just another reason you're special and a true asset to the site

>> Folks on BOTH sides are starting to push the envelope again and the simple fact is that it's having some bit of success.<<

Oh, from what I recall, Pin has alwas tried to push the boundaries.

>>Read the 'Flixsburough' entry? Not all that is fact is verifiable when much of it's history is word of mouth and personal recollection. Does that make it any less true? More importantly does that make it any less valid as true research? <<

No, I haven't read it, and you're right, history is not always verifiable, I've found that more than once when researching for one of my entries. One of the best examples was when I researched my Sacher-Masoch entry. A friend sent me some info from an otherwise reliable source, and I was shocked what it said. It suggested that he died in a lunatic asylum in France, getting the dates and everything mixed up with those of the Marquis de Sade - a fact that I duly mentioned in my entry.


>>Have you noticed a new interest in the site by the powers that be? It seems as if someone really cares ...<<

Yes, I had the impression that things were a bit different, although I can't say I had the feeling nobody cared before. It's sad that we're down to just two eds, though, the workload must be huge.

>>Despite what some may say about us being a 'back alley shop' or 'out on the fringes of the web' we have and always will be a ray of sunshine in an otherwise harsh and bleak world. That is worth fighting for in my opinion and yours as well if I read you correctly...and I think I do <<

Exactly. I don't see us as a wiki rival, we're completely different and people should stop comparing us. This site is the best that has happened to me in the past four years. I've achieved things I never even intended to achieve, and I've found some true friends, even if they're all far away. I guess I'm lucky that I live relatively close in times of planes, this way, I've managed to go to several meets. I've met Ben a few times, and Hyp when she was in London for hootoo's 8th birthday this April. Both are absolutely lovely in RL.

>>That sometimes the authors feel that their stuff is of higher quality than some others is were the problem lies. <<

Yes, unfortunately, that is the case. I remember somebody submitting work there (and I think I had suggested the AWW to him because what he had submitted to PR was in no way EG material), and at the slightest criticism, he became abusive and complained:

F6909819?thread=3998562&skip=1

I've been over at Pin's place quite often at that time, I just realised.


Sorry to hear that Flame left, like I said, I really liked her stories. I think she was a newbie like me at the time.

>>If they were privy to some of the battles that have occured there they'd be singing a different tune I'm sure!<<

Are you having battles in the UG forum?

The ace forum is dead quiet, except for the occasional info that a very young researcher has signed up, so that the eds are aware of that.

The scouts forum is nearly as quiet - I think the debates there were before I joined, but not much since.

The AViators forum was practically Rich doing something, and me telling him what I thought about it, and offering moral support.

It's perked up recently, though, with several new members calling in, so I hope there'll be some results in the near future.

The Post forum is mainly me asking silly questions, and EMR and Rich patiently answering them.

No battles whatsoever.

Hi Bel, how are the eye's holding up?

In all my haste I'd failed to say thank you for the invite to your thread not to mention the use of you 'pet' name. I shall not find the time but rather make the time to come visit as if it holds more open minded and interesting individuals such as yourself it must be a lively place indeed

>Are you short of volunteers for the UG?<

That's a tricky question as we are a different animal and some delicacy is required. The likes of some such as ST MK II would be rather, how shall I put it, not unwelcome, no that's far too tame. Nope, I can't think of a single expletive that would make it through the profanity filters. I'll just say that this is the type of individual that lacks sensitivity nessesary when dealing with writers of a creative bent, they being at times as fickle as they are fragile. Sadly it's some of these that come running for a chance at 'power' and it only one such (explitive deleted) to ruin a lot of hard work by truly dedicated individuals. Mark my words, he'll bite PR in the butt if y'all don't put a leash on him right quick!

Now as for yourself, there's some help that would be welcome indeed You have the gentle touch as well as the strength of character to be a true asset to the UG, attributes nessesary to do the job as it should be done. No pressure of course, just an idea to kick around. If you're of a mind just let me know and I'll provide all the background you'd like, more personal than simply pointing to a link and saying go and a whole lot more insightful if I do say so myself

Thank you for the offer and your vote of confidence.

I'm sorry to say, but I am busy enough with my other volunteer's work, any more, and after a while, I'd feel it's all too much and I can't live up to what I myself expect from me, and I'd have to let somebody down. I would hate doing that.
When I signed up for the h2g2 researchers group and PR was suddenly so full with entries, I knew I was in trouble. I couldn't keep up with reading them all, let alone comment on all I read, and I feel that I failed. And it's not as if anybody expects me to read and comment on all entries - that's just me. I am like that, I don't do things by halve, and if I find out that I can't give what *I* think I should give, I quit and hide for a while, embarrassed by my failure.

Maybe I'll find some time to read through some of the UG and AWW conversations, and then I could still tell people about it in my next RR - I don't need to mention volunteers if that's a bit awkward. You are right, I imagine it's better to ask people you know, than having total strangers on your doorstep. Like the Post, the UG is too delicate for that, I reckon.

I'm off to sleep now, have a good evening.

Bel

Thankfully there are no battles raging in the forum, a blessing really as that usually means a fly has gotten into the ointment. Now heated discourse is an entirely different thing altogether, folks disaggreeing but never resorting to the level of true verbal combat. Even this only occurs when there's enough people and the associated output in which to argue over and sadly that isn't the case.

It's not just PR that's seen a dwindling in numbers you know, hence the cause for alarm and the reason so many have returned after a hiatus. That some are the movers and shakers of old shows just how deeply this place gets a hold on a body and the commitment of those so infected by the bug. Three cheers for hootoo and hugs all around

Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite

BTW, that is in no way to be taken as a slight on your housekeeping abilities, besides, I prefer to think of bed bugs as bedmates, a much friendlier way of approching that scenario especially after seeing them microscopically on TV

Spy