h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

and and

Peanut

I had rather got the impression that yours might be a single-parenting situation- last post seems to confirm.?

Amongst many cases perhaps the most extreme I recall was a mother and daughter who I refused to see together at parents evenings.. I suppose one of many for whom I (as a male teacher)served as about as close to a father as she was going to get.. One of the harder phone conversations was with the mother when I had to say that I could not make the girl's wedding brought forward for when she would still be alive.

She told me what a relief it was to finally get an accurate diagnosis for what was wrong with her. At times she had found that under the medication she found that she had been sitting in a chair for 12-24 hours that had just got lost. Now she was able to explain, clinically as an ex-nurse, that they were going to extract all of her bone-marrow, shoot it with radiation and put it back. That would give her a few months, until it would have to be done with less benefit. Slippery slope.

She could deal with this certainty better than the previous uncertainty, and hoped that having lived to see her daughter married, she at least was settled.

In fact in writing I now recall that the pupil was at uni by then, and I loaned her a copy of my analysis of the prophetic nature of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein for an assignment.

I also recall that as soon as I put the phone down and left that "bubble" and found myself back in my office at school, I broke down in tears.

Cass

Cass,

yes I am a single parent, s'pose. Hiccup has another parent she has chosen for herself, called Spiller, who doesn't live with us but makes no odds.

In her heart and in her memories he is and will be her Dad.

There are grandparents and Aunties, and cousins, but we will always be a tight and small unit I guess and while there are definate economic and social disadvanges to being a single parent family, we are solid

It has never been just the two of us, while we are tight we are not a twosome, if you get that, independent people

possibly the hardest thing about raising a child is that, raising an individual, not 'your child' again does that make sense

Peanut

Peanut

Raising an individual..definitely, but, if you read my last post on the Sun Set thread- I conveys my concern at an aspect of the "Americanisation" of our culture in the 20th and especially since 1945..which really makes life difficult for all young people these days in which there is a tendency to think that one can "set the counter back at zero" and just be "judged for who you are".. It is good that you and Hiccup have a strong sense that "who you are" involves being part of a family, a group and a community.

"I've got to break free"

But judging from what you have written, just in general terms- having spent many years of personal/individual tutoring 15-18 year old girls, it sounds like Hiccup is approaching the age when most girls to face all the uncertainty of not knowing: (a) whether they are going to grow up into individuals who will take life in their stride with a full range of options, and (b) whether their parents or parent is similarly going to cope with the next phase of their life..

This has been brought home to me this week because we had a family get together on Sunday, with our daughter inviting the four of us to lunch for my birthday. Monday morning my wife was in a foul mood, and she started moaning about her B**** family ,and the way that she is treated, me being the culprit in chief.

I initially thought that it was her usual 'post-prandial' let down. She tries to plan these things and builds up too many ideas about what she wants to happen. And naturally with six people the plot input is various.

But reading between the lines...On Friday morning I had talked to her about a caravan that her parents had looked at [in Dijon] for us on monday, and they had dismissed it for various superficial reasons. I pointed out that none of those reasons was a serious impediment. I am very much in the "Make do and mend" tradition. Some hours later she announced that she had phoned the owner and bought it. I am a "go with the flow" adaptable person in such matters.

But on Sunday our children had got on the computer with their Mum in another room, and had found cheaper versions: perhaps especially our son who buys and sells second hand stuff in a music shop and who was appalled at us buying the caravan on trust (though 1988 this particular one has only been used for a few weeks altogether).. Mind you, our daughter is an Actuary, now a partner in a medium sized firm, dealing in millions daily. They clearly made her feel an idiot, who lived in a stupid dream world that they have got used to tolerating [now they no longer live at home]..

I only realized this because after her rants against her family, she picked up the phone to talk to the owner of the caravan and withdraw her offer to buy it unseen.

Cass

Peanut

But perhaps recent posts have brought us- as you remarked about previous exchanges- into regions better tackled- as in all those tutorials of mine- when there is more direct and personal contact and knowledge/awareness than is possible here.

Good night.

Cass

Good morning Cass



oof, family dynamics, complicated. Are you going to view the caravan?

I hope Hiccup doesn't have any worries about how I will cope when she leaves home. We have talked about it being an adjustment, I can't deny that I'll miss her but I am as equally excited for her, she is moving on to a new stage of her life which I hope has a lot to offer in terms of experience and that is how it should be.

For many families I think there is an expectation that perhaps your children will come back to you, whereas we have always made it clear we are happy to come to her, when she settles and if she wants us around. Which she does at present, for future child minding duties She drew the line at Spiller trailing around after her at a discrete distance should she go on a gap year though!

Cass, this might seem like an abrupt stop, by I am distracted at the moment and my brain is refusing to engage properly so I am going to leave it there for now

back later

Peanut

Cass

P.S I am a bit confused by your last post, what prompted that?

Peanut

Peanut

(a) the caravan- I believe so.. That was what my wife said to the owner..

Personally I have old-English ideas about one's word being one's bond, and she had specifically agreed to buy it, having, however, I believe made some reservations about "papers", which he did not seem to have.

But (a) I do not think that they fully understood the inner-circumstances re the caravan, and I will not go into the details: and (b) they probably can not comprehend the "winging it" reality of our life..Certainly not a life of ease but a life (as I try to convince my wife) when we can do pretty much as we please. Unfortunanately this seems to be an alien concept and she is constantly erecting imperatives.

(b) The whole question of single-parenting is one that really needs to be considered at the individual and unique level. Mind you I tend to think that about History too. And people discussing it in general terms is not necessarily helpful because I am aware of the challenge of all parenting, and recall, for example, the sister of a current Cabinet minister looking at me appealingly one parent's evening and remarking that it was hard bringing up her daughter on her own.

I felt I understood what she meant, because she once looked me in the eyes shortly after I had started teaching her class when they were about 15. I think that she was the last to leave, and I complented her on some work that she had done on These Neumman, the "stigmatist". The eye contact was incredible, a deeply searching and questing one that explored me like some totally unknown territory. Every so often there were girls who just needed to seize the chance to try to get some insight into a man's world.

She never looked at me again all the time that I taught her.. A couple of years after she left us, she came back to sit some exams as an external candidate; and finally we were able to exchange glances and chat quite normally..

There goes my wife's dinner bell.. Will continue later.

Cass

Cass

lunch, I knew there was something I had forgotton

although true, shameless post, so we don't drop off the list

Peanut

But more generally often as part of the GCSE Course "Religion and Society" the whole question of family's would come up- with the RC mantra that the 'nuclear family' is the basic cell unit of Society.

My thesis is that this is what the State and the economic system would have us believe, because it makes things simple- Diane Abbott said recently "white middle class politics is all about divide and rule. Though "nuclear families" may be the minimum needed for a species to survive, in order to survive with any meaningful quality of life there have to be extended families and wider communal relations.

And I have suggested that for me at least one parent and one child is not a "single-parent family". In my book two people do not form a family on their own and that giving money to combat "Social Exclusion" in order to create such a fiction is almost guaranteed to perpetuate social exclusion.


Thus when my wife and I were married and before we decided to "start a family" we were not a family- we were a couple. And when my mother and sister were cohabiting for so long, and were having such violent rows on occasions that the Police contacted my brother to drive over and try to sort things out before someone got seriously hurt, they were not a "family".

A family is something solid that gives children security while growing up and into their future. And I feel that I can actually make these points because you have stressed that you and Hiccup belong to such a family.

Recently I watched a part of Carol Vorderman's 'who do you think you are?' and was reminded that, though her Mum was left stranded with 3? daughters when Carol was about 3 weeks old, and was constantly at work trying to pay the bills, it just so happened that one of her ancestors had bought a row of 4 houses in Prestatyn, where the family ran a butcher's business. The four houses were all occupied by aunts, uncles, cousins, etc so she never felt a the lack of family- though obviously she wondered about just in what way she was shaped by her father's genes. The programme suggested that if she went to Cambridge and studied engineering, it was probably those Dutch genes that counted.

Some of my London pupils who believed that they did live in one-parent families- just Mum and daughter- were not too keen when I pointed out that, actually most of them were probably thinking in terms of "getting a life", perhaps with the right to contract marriages and partnerships without having to get their Mum's blessing,and eventually perhaps have "a family of their own".. Where did this leave the parent?

Is a lone adult then a "family"?

Because unless there are tragic scenario's like my sisters, good parenting in most people's eyes- as you have already said is your aspiration- involves bringing children to adulthood in which they will then make a life of their own, with you falling back into the extended family.

And I recall in particular "Rosie", who at about 14-15 when she was asserting her independence, telling me that her Mum, who ran a dress-fashion shop, had a boyfriend, who eventually turned into a Step-Father, which is another ball-game. You have mentioned one of those in your life.

I recall a very special relationship Sarah at 17-18 whose Mum was remarried and whose actual-Dad was frequently away in Africa. By this time I had taught her from the age of 11, and recall being "tested" to some degree by her mother at that age. A social get to together for new parents. Mum arrived with baby, and as we were chatting in the Dining Room (appropriate venue) she undid her blouse and started breast-feeding, as we just carried on talking. We always got on well ever-after: but she was quite a character. And I think that her Mum liking me, and me being solid, dependable sort of chap (most of the time) helped my relations with Sarah.

One day in the Sixth Form when I had been sitting having one of our tutorials, I got up to leave: and as I was going through the door my musicians hearing picked up her whispered "I love you Mr ****". I am not sure that she detected the slight hesitation in my step.. When she left she gave me a photo of myself singing an impromptu leaving song with "Love you forever" written on the back.

Cass

Cass

I think we agree that a family is something that needs to be solid for children to thrive. The reasons for single families being socially excluded is not down to the structure of that family unit in itself, it is due to a multitude of factors that can be corrected by social intervention.

Good quality childcare, childcare that can cope with shift patterns (not available),flexible working arrangements, support for parents, family centres, ours was sometimes a godsend, just for a cup of coffee and a bit of social contact on a drop in basis, also the opportunity to be up a support network, access to education and training (re-training).

I think children need adults in their in lives that are committed to them, those adults don't need to be related to them and it doesn't need to be a full time commitment, just consistant, regular and reliable.

I made decisions when Hiccup was born but they personal to me, what I felt was right for us but that doesn't mean that I think anyone elses decisions are wrong.

Spiller isn't Hiccup's step dad, he is her Dad, he earned those spurs over the last 13 years and they were ones that Hiccup gave to him, he considers that an honour, he was happy with Uncle Spiller. She trusts him, depends on him, emotionally they are bonded, he is the second person to get news good or bad, he taught her to fly a kite, they learnt to surf together,he drops everything if the shit hits the fan, if she marries he will give her away, he frets when she is out late, we make decisions together, if I die he gets custody.

We didn't plan it this way, it happened over time we grew together as a family, not conventional two very bonded friends and child but a family none the less. The fact that we are is recognised and supported by both our families, our friends, accepted by the school etc the only thing we can't do is make it legal.

When Hiccup leaves home, we will still be family

Peanut

Peanut

The step-dad that I had in mind was yours-- I thought you wrote that your Mum and Step-Dad go to Watchet sometimes.

As for the rest I think that we are in a large measure of agreement..

There used to be such a thing as "common law marriage" which was very normal in working class urban districts. Formal legal marriage is just an extension of the decision by couples, and in fact larger groups that attend weddings and such, to announce to the world that they wish to be regarded as an permanent and enduring entity. And children need to feel that the adults in their world have that kind of commitment. As a teacher I would like to think that my pupils felt that they got this from me.

Every so often, however, one comes across a parent, usually mother, who insists that they have monopoly rights and duties where their child or children are concerned: and in most cases statistically this means that the child tends to grow up in material poverty.

The justification often given is that the child can then get the full force of the mother's love and attention. But children do not need to have love and attention rammed down their throat. They need not only to experience love and attention, but to observe it. And to my mind they are impoverished when they see that the person who loves them, because she gave birth to them, does not seem to love or be loved by anyone else. How do you "find love" that is not thrust upon you? And are you capable of inspiring and achieve that romantic love that is supposed to make one out of two?

And moreover, while they need a parent who can communicate with them as is appropriate for their level of development, they also need to be able to learn from being present when adults discuss adult matters, in an adult way. Otherwise how do they learn to be an adult. In my day little girls would dress up in their mother's clothes and start to play "Mums and Daddies". These days they seem to learn from "soaps"- and chatting about them with their peers, if they are not socially isolated.

Studies of language acquisition show that single-children of older parents (John Stuart Mill syndrome) talk like grown-ups very early on. Mill was joining in his father's philosophical discussions in Greek and Latin by the age of five. As the number of children in a family increases, the language exposure (and all the thought processes that implies) goes down and down, as the predominant conversation in the home gets often younger and younger as the parent struggles to cope with the practical demands of managing the home, and trying to get the youngest "broken in".. The youngest in fact ends up spending most of the time with sibblings and receives very little personal attention.

But I do not see that we disagree- though our generational divide and personal experience obviously shapes the way we might both rationalise these things..

It was for fear of touching on sensitive issues that I initially baulked at the prospect of getting in to all of this.



Cass

Afternoon Cass,

this is a quick 'afternoon Cass' but I really wanted to say that I think you nailed it when you said that our generational divide and personal experiences shape the way we rationalise things

nothing we can't get over it seems, I am enjoying discussing our different perspectives and I think when we strip things back we agree on a lot of core stuff



Peanut

Peanut

I'll drink to that.



Cass

Cass,

I'll drink to that too

I had hoped and planned to post tonight but my head is splitting so I am going to get my sleeping bag out, flop on the sofa and watch tv, drink in hand.

I think I'll have a as I can afford it here, with a slug of sloe gin because it makes taste great

I expect I will be reading a bit but short posts only tonight

and

Peanut

Sweet Dreams Peanut

Another line from a song of mine:

"To wake! To wake!.. perchance to dream

And dreams may still come true"

Daydreams are the best

Cass

Cass

Still short posting Cass.

There has been some horribleness here and I am disheartened at the moment and can't quite find my h2g2 mojo yet

I like daydreams too

the other night I had a great dream, in the syle of an animated film, bit scary in parts, especially when the ravens picked me up and threw me out the church, the beggars. I woke up quite impressed that my brain had such imagination which in wakefulness it lacks when it comes to that sort of thing, there were outfits and everything

How is your weekend, even though I am not talkative, I do like a good listen

Peanut

Hi Peanut

Do you mean here/there - where you are- or here on h2g2?

We have not had a good couple of days.. But yesterday morning I woke up having had a really weird dream, that seemed to be me rushing to school late. But on reflection I noticed the Head Girl and Boy posing for photos all in white- and there seemed to be a school hall taken over by a whole lot of elderly people sorting out jumble. Other weird stuff in terms of rain and sun etc.. I realised that it had been a vision of some kind of Heaven.

But as I wrote to jwf a couple of days ago, our Druid friend sent us her Beltane poems earlier in the week.. May Day etc these are times of weird energy that get down into our subconscious and try to shake us up a bit in accordance with the season.

But must rush.. I am off to B&Q to see if I can spend £100 to get 20% off. As an OAP I usually go on Tuesday's when I get 10%.

Cheer up.. Things are probably much worse and much better than we think. That apparently is the dynamic of Beltane the strength of opposites that increases the power.

Talk to you later

Cass

Cass,

I mean here

I don't envy you braving B+Q on a Saturday afternoon

see you later

Peanut

Hi Peanut

Back.. Not too bad.. I left late enough to clash with other attractions like the FA Cup Final.. Just watched the last few minutes on ITV+1 (so don't tell me the result just yet)

I suppose one of the things that "gets up my wife's nose" is that especially at this time of year I seem to end up enjoying chatting to all kinds of peope when out shopping. Today I started chatting about wood for fencing to someone who, it turned out was first married to a French woman, and even had his mother-in-law living with them.. Interesting exchange of "horror stories".. Then we got into state of the nation stuff.. A former lecturer at the University of East London.

Mind you working things out on the spot can be tiring: but I came away with amost £100 worth of timber- and a new circular saw. I can now look forward to various projects. Saved about £50 by spending £136.

How is the headache of last-night. Not improved in spite of the sloe gin.. Now surely that is West Country.. though come to think of it we did have a picking expedition in Burgundy a few years ago and bottle some in that preserving alcholol they have over there.

Wittering away.

Back after the second half at Wembley.

Cass