h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Peanut

Funny about the problem with that page.. It started last night when you were indulging yourself

Cass

oh, haha

just nipped to see if it was fixed. Patience Peanut!

It was the best thread we have in a long time, interesting posts, no argueing and contributers that don't often post in Ask

Been out and we treated ourselves to a large full English to share, at least I'm all fixed now.

When my Mum first introduced me to my Grandmother (Dad's side) she was shocked at the length of her skirt because Mum had to keep hitching it down

I once wore a skirt that was just above the knee and a tie up blouse to a summer disco when I was about 14. It was summery aprt from sitting on my boyfriend's lap and dancing the slow dance at the end my behaviour was good that night. Next morning for some reason got hoiked in the head of year office and was told that they thought my outfit was not appropriate and I should be aware of what people might think, along the lines of you are asking it

I was genuinely shocked and spewing. You can imagine what my outfit was like for the next disco, remember Madonna with the crucifixes

Peanut

Madonna.. got me into trouble.

One Christmas shopping stint I passed by a young woman very much "glammed up" like Madonna going on stage in W.H. Smith's. I vaguely assumed she was about 17 years old. But as I walked past her I realised that it was one of our 13-14 year olds, a very dowdy and plain girl, with scarce any self-confidence and really no poise or "deportment".

This was a kind of Superman, or Supergirl fantasist phenomenon. In fact classmates who had been to her bedroom told me that she was obsessed with Madonna, and had a whole wardrobe full of costumes with which to fantasize. I also discovered one day at the back of her History Exercise book some scraps of paper with the female versions o the kind of sexual fantasy stuff that I was familiar with in boy version from my own early adolescence.

Perhaps by them I had already got into my trouble.

Some months into the New Year we had a very solemn staff meeting because this very girl had been the victim of sexual assault, and I felt it appropriate to refer to the fact that I had seen this "alter-ego", and it might be interesting to know in which form of herself she was assaulted. Probably not the predatory Madonna one.

Anyway I got shouted down by PC female colleagues as if I was putting forward the "she asked for it" argument that was often used, when I believe what I had in mind was the way that 'predators' have a nose for weakness and susceptibility.

I was shocked to see the 'alter-ego' but, as I inferred about the chat up line before, it is such hidden, repressed and unreconciled feelings and desires that make us easy prey for those looking for victims.

I usually made it a point -most often when we were discussing male/female roles etc in RE to point out that it has served males very well to put about this idea that girls "grow up" earlier than boys. It gives boys and young men, and not so young, a golden opportunity to form relations with younger women who are, in fact, in much weaker positions in life than they are themselves. I suppose this was particularly brought home to me by the fact that Afro-Caribean boys not only tended to go for younger girls that would be easier to handle, but in fact white girls- for most black girls were just too much for them to handle. The phenomenon was emphasised to me at the wedding of a neighbours son, where one of the other guests (in our 'black section' wedding breakfast) observed that he had four lovely and well-qualified daughters who would probably never marry. Young black men married white women, and white men rarely married black- men being less daring in social terms.

PS. Going back to skirts.. It was so funny in my last school driving past all the girls bringing their skirts down to 'school length' as they drew nearer- and the reverse at the end of the day.

But one pupil who was one of the really 'special ones'- we had such great conversations- was the only one who was ever pulling up her skirt as she approached school. Her background was Pakistani Muslim, though she was proud of a Communist uncle and was very much a free-thinker- but thoughtful about it- and she clearly felt that she needed to leave home with her skirt at Muslim length. But she did not want to stand out at school in that way, and so adjusted the skirt upwards usually when crossing the common about 200 yards from school.

Cass

Cass

well you would have got a challanging response from me too if that is what I thought you were saying

It is very complicated, some people look for vulnerable people it can equally be about over-powering and dominating someone that is strong. Sadly the attitudes that because someone talks, acts, dances or dresses in a certain way that you must be up for it still persist and while they do we have to speak up and speak out. It is not being PC.

I think questions have to be asked why people behave in certain ways, so questions in that sense are valid but that wouldn't have been the time or place to ask them, it didn't matter what she wore that day. That would have made me upset and cross even if I could establish that it was a mis-communication

mmm, not sure that I am in the best place to be having long deep and meaningfuls on this subject matter at the moment. I'm not making it off limits, just saying

ah, the hitching up of skirt trick, did they wear ties, top button undone, either massive knots and making a really short tie or really tight small one ones, with skinny back strand of the tie being much longer than the squished fat strand. Does that make any sense, I don't know what to call the bits of my tie, it might have proper names and all The skinny knot was called a peanut, I had forgotton that until now

glass of ? I'm determined to squeeze a smiley out of you one day

Peanut

Peanut

Re dress etc

Did you see the research [Not sure which country] which took photos of teenage girls and probably students dressing up to go out for the evening.. And they also checked where they were in their monthly cycle.. Most of the girls did not actually know when they ovulated (can be found by taking the body temperature regularly) and therefore just when they were fertile and could conceive, so it was purely biological that (and to quite a startling degree) they dressed in a markedly different way on evenings when they were fertile, which suggests that they were feeling more sexy-- and therefore were more likely to attract the sexual interest of males.

Cass

Peanut

Back to one or two points:

(a) cancelled as you wished

(b) Skirts and ties.. They seemed to just roll up the waistband of the skirt.. but I was usually driving my car and only saw in passing.. Your ties thing got me bemused.. I rather suspect that Junior girls wore none. The school uniform was blouse and jumper rather than blazer and tie. My comprehenisive girls wore ties- but I recall no St. Trinians type fantasies.

Cass

Peanut

Back to one or two points:

(a) cancelled as you wished

(b) Skirts and ties.. They seemed to just roll up the waistband of the skirt.. but I was usually driving my car and only saw in passing.. Your ties thing got me bemused.. I rather suspect that Junior girls wore none. The school uniform was blouse and jumper rather than blazer and tie. My comprehenisive girls wore ties- but I recall no St. Trinians type fantasies.

Cass

Morning Cass

I think I did see that study, I didn't follow it up though although it wouldn't surprise me that we have subtle tells like that. Should be grateful that we don't have baboon bottoms

personal stuff alert, I don't want anything to be off limits for discussion because it is not

Hiccup has had a difficult time at school, it has been challanging in its own right. It is a really important time in young persons life last years of school, moving on to college or into training. I promised her and myself when she born I would move heaven and earth to make sure that she be thrive in school, in a holistic sense and be able, and have the opportunity, to make better choices that I did as a young person

An unfortunate side effect, that going through that seems to have kicked up a lot dirt for me, that I was/am well adjusted too and have been for years,it was unexpected, I was unprepared for the intensity of it and sometimes it has been difficult.

But, I'm ok, just sometimes, if I'm not feeling particulary great generally, or I am feeling great and just want leave other stuff on the side while I am here,there are topics and threads I avoid, or don't get overly involved in. So my thoughts were you'd understand that, so I felt comfortable saying something, rather than just avoiding

all the best,

Peanut

oh, and the blazers, that thought amused me, I think there might have been a riotous rebellion if they tried to foist those upon us

Cardigans or V necks. Blazers seem to be them norm now though, our school will have them next year. Hiccup thinks they are smart, has no class association with them, whereas we thought they were for toffs

Peanut

I learned (perhaps)a lesson last time I did Jury service and sat on two cases..Both were interesting slices of life..The first involved alleged sexual assault, the second an alleged physical assault. Both involved intense discussion. In the second for some reason I mentioned something to do with sexual assault, and one of the other Jury members threw out her hands and said "I can not hear this".. to stop me speaking.

I have never taken kindly to being bossed around, and believed that it is as essential for democracy that there is free speech in Jury Rooms as much as in Parliament.

Free speech, however, must be considerate of the rights of others: and I looked to our elected Chairperson, who indicated that it was a line of argument that I must drop. I assumed that, though she might well have been selected for the Jury for the first trial, she had accepted to do Jury service on the understanding that she would not have to hear such cases.. Most of us have our various traumas to deal with.

The Blazers business is interesting.. Rightly or wrongly I think that many children associate them with an age with much higher academic standards and much more comfidence that there were things worth teaching and learning.. And Harry Potter has done much to change perceptions.

There is also the fact that generally people are much more affluent than they used to be.. One of the things that singled me out at grammar school was that I had a home-made blazer, my mother being a very accomplished seamstress: but I was "different".

Cass

Morning Peanut- No afternoon.. Anyway "Godsday to you"



Cass

Afternoon Cass

you used smilies that brought a grin to my face, thank you for that

a lot going on that's all, so I am not ignoring you or anything

I was thinking about the blazers yesterday, I hadn't thought of Harry Potter because in my mind they always wear cloaks

Also 'preppy' was the fashion a while back, so blazers were weekend wear for a time so I thought they might have a new found enthusiam to have them at school.

Hiccup thinks they are smart anyway but as she will going to college next year she is gagging to lose the uniform and dye her hair blue, wear her piercings and not get turned back at the gates!



Peanut

Hi Peanut

I just noticed some exasperation in comments and was also mindful that recent exchanges were perhaps getting close to sensitive issues..

And I am in an instigating phase. I have finally started this morning trying to write an old-fashioned letter to my elder sister who had left a message on our answer phone when we were away saying that she was in hospital and wanted to talk to me. The next day, when I finally managed to get her on the phone,she went ballistic when she heard that, in trying to track down her news (why in hospital etc) I had phoned our sister in law.

She slammed down the phone on me..

Hers has not been an easy life- more tragic than anything else.. but she really gets the worst of it by shutting herself off from the only family that she has got..

Cass

Cass

I unsub to conversations sometimes, usually I don't do it on the thread. I am a rubbish at flouncing out as it turns out, I signed out after posting and then had to sign back in to actually unsub

Really it is I had a lot of free time to spend here last week, not so much this week.

Will your sister cool down do you think? A letter is a good thing to get I would think, gives you time to read and process before making the next move

Peanut

Peanut

Re my sister we will see..

It is a good excuse to word process it-- I tend to type more than write these days- and if she tears it up and ignores it, I can send it again, and again.

We were not a family that could ever cool down and let life move on, which is why both me and my brother did. Our elder sister was left with that interesting West Country situation (or perhaps it was just my mother's family) of unmarried daughters (with or without a child) staying with Mum and Dad till the bitter end.

In my sisters case it was the without child option, and only our Mum, who wrote to me out of the blue about 18 years ago to say that they had sold up and moved to the South Coast, where they have never lived, have no history or contact, no relations or friends, and it requires about 7 hours of driving from here and back to see them. When Mum died 20 April 2003 she left my sister totally stranded and left with the carer's legacy of having spent all her time looking after someone, who totally ignored her need to "get a life".

We had a great aunt who had done this for her wheelchair-bound mother, and then to everyone's amazement in the village and family, she made up for lost time. So far my sister has not been able to.

On the other hand, she was in hospital because of a fall that broke her wrists, and she is having to pay for a home help for a few weeks- and "the neighbour from Hell" popped in to volunteer to take and do all her washing.. So you never know.

I will also be sending some stuff about people with our family name that I found on the internet.. I have no idea if they are related but some of the common traits are really quite remarkable, so perhaps these too will help her to see the bigger picture.

Cass

Peanut

I notice that this thread has made it into the "top 20".

Cass

Cass

oh my,we are pop-u-lar

I'm not sure how it is worked out exactly but it is only because we were posting a lot at the weekend before we get carried away with our new found fame

will catch up with your other post tomorrow, off to bed early tonight so I am too

Peanut

Cass,

you know I can imagine you sending it again and again

I don't think it is a west country thing pariculary.

I can see how with the moving, the dynamics of that relationship as you describe and the role of carer would leave someone isolated.
And perhaps lacking in confidence and unable to know where to start in getting a life. I don't know, is she not happy with her life?

I always had it in my mind while I adore being a parent, when Hiccup left the nest, there would be things that I would like to do again. Travel maybe as in travellers lifestyle rather than round the world ticket, certainly move now there wouldn't be school and Hiccup's connections here to be thinking about. You can't garantee that your children will want or be able afford to leave home these days in which she could come with me.

Then my Mum and step dad needed support, not full time care or anything. It has always been that when me Mum gets to the stage when she needs care it will me, this is not something I begrudge

I had what I call 'a right Lucy Jordan moment', panic, this could be seamless, I'll go from one role to the next

end with a song http://www#youtube#com/watch?v=YANUIa_bHoU

Peanut

Hi Peanut

[I noticed that we were up to 17 this morning].

And I probably will not send it again and again..where my family is concerned I have had to adapt to its unusual norms..But perhaps this accident- that has brought her into forced interaction with some locals- may also have forced her to take the first step out of the isolation which has immersed her since Mum's death...

Last year she contacted what family she has, cutting herself off totally from our dead brothers family and making her adieus to me and mine. Obviously she felt the need to phone me when she was in hospital -- but we were away in France for 3 weeks or so, my wife being French and us having tried to create a kind of "franglais" lifestyle. That probably made her feel even worse: and whatever crisis was passed and she was back home by the time that I phoned.

My mother-in-law bemoans having brought up her two daughters to be so independent- one married and living in England, the other in Switzerland. With my parents-in-law both coming up to 90 this year, she is very much feeling alone too.

I tried the song link but it did not work. for me.

Cass

Cass

if we do a smiley conga now we might be able to make the top five in the next couple of updates

although, technical detail here I don't really like journal threads appearing on the top 20 list, 'nother matter altogether, that is me being a h2g2

I will get back to your franglais lifestyle and perhaps heed you MIL's bemoaning of bringing up independent children, my health vistor said ' haha, s'pect you two will turn the air blue, strong willed mother, raising a daughter to be strong willed'. She did mean it as a compliment and a dry but humourous reflection on parenting as in sometimes you'll regret teaching them their own minds. I have often reflected on that when me and Hiccup are having long wind negiotations

in the meantime...