A Conversation for Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
a girl called Ben Started conversation Jul 29, 2001
Neither a small thing, nor entirely mine own. http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A591626 This was spawned by a discussion http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F19585&thread=109755 and has been in the Writers Workshop for a goodly while too http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F57153?thread=127330; but now I think it is ready to be considered for the Edited Guide. Although it is long, there is a precicely defined scope and it has a clearly stated thesis as well, so I have defended it a couple of times against suggestions of splitting it into more than one entry. I am not entirely happy with it's current title, and it has been through several name changes already. Anyway - here you go. ***B
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Azara Posted Jul 29, 2001
This is a great entry, A Girl Called Ben!
I think it's much harder to write this kind of entry, with a definite line of thought being argued, than the standard descriptive type. It doesn't seem particularly long to me, and it would lose a lot by being split.
I think the paragraph about Barrie and Wilde looks a bit odd, where you start by saying that Barrie gave us a pair of counter-balancing characters, and then you sandwich Dorian Grey between them.
There's a lost 'is' in the sentence 'William Gibson is coined the term "Cyberspace"', and a missing word in 'the books are hugely influential and have a large number of movies' - inspired, or spawned, perhaps?
Anyway, those are just a couple of very small points about what is really an excellent entry.
Azara
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
kane2742 Posted Jul 29, 2001
Great entry! IMHO, it should be put in the Edited Guide right away. The concepts mentioned in this entry have greatly influenced our vocabulary and culture and say a lot about our society. Excellent job!
Kane
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
a girl called Ben Posted Jul 29, 2001
Thank you.
You are right about the Barrie / Wilde paragrapsh and I have rearranged them so that they now make more sense, and lead on to Lolita in a better way too. Thanks Azara.
I have removed the floating 'is' and restored 'spawned' which got lost in a previous re-write. I like to do my entries in GuideML, but it does make making textual edits a complete pain!
What was interesting was that I didnt start off with any thesis at all, it emerged as I highlighted the suggestions from the discussion thread. And a lot of the statements of the idea came from defending it in the Writers Workshop.
Thanks again
Ben
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Azara Posted Jul 29, 2001
That was quick, Ben!
I think the Barrie and Wilde paragraphs flow more smoothly now. But I think you have introduced a typo: Peter Pan's counterpint is Wendy?
Two other little typos: 'existance' in the third paragraph should be 'existence', and 'oak-panneled' about Mycroft's club should be 'oak-panelled'. Once again, I think it's really excellent - I'm only pointing those out because I assume you're a perfectionist!
Azara
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
a girl called Ben Posted Jul 29, 2001
Thank you again - what a joy to be able to spell like that!
"Perfectionist" sounds so much nicer than "obsessive" - don't you think?
I wonder if a "counterpint" is the drink you have with a short as a chaser...? (though hopefully no-one would drink gin as a chaser!)
Thanks again
a perfectionist called Ben
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Ormondroyd Posted Jul 29, 2001
This is a great Entry, entertaining and informative. The only tiny glitch I can see that hasn't already been pointed out is that I think you've misspelled "Asimov" in the footnotes.
I tried to think of any words derived from novels that you hadn't used. The only one I could come up with was "quixotic", meaning chivalrous and romantic to a foolish and unrealistic degree, and derived from Miguel de Cervantes' classic novel "Don Quixote".
That novel was written in the 16th century, and so falls outside the time-frame you're focussing on. But there is a striking contrast there with the much darker, more pessimistic themes of most of the books you've discussed, so perhaps it could be mentioned for that reason!
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
a girl called Ben Posted Jul 30, 2001
Quixotic and Malapropism were in the original thread, which did not speciy any time frame, and I selected the 1800 cut-off thematically.
I could sling them into a footnote though.
...*trots off to corect Asimov*...
Thank you very much for your thoughts and suggestions
Ben
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Mr Prophet (General Purpose Genre Guru) Posted Aug 9, 2001
Great entry.
Nothing much more to say really; just, great entry.
Oh yeah; in the bit on Cyberspace, the text is a little unclear. It's been a while since I read Neuromancer, but as I recall cyberspace is just the digital world. Most of the paragraph supports this, but the line `Physically this world is a chilling urban landscape, both sophisticated and decaying' sounds like it refers to Cyberspace. Perhaps `The physical setting of the book' would be better. I'm not sure.
Did I mention; great entry. I wonder how much mileage there'd be in a similar one on terms adopted out of film and TV.
The Prophet.
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
a girl called Ben Posted Aug 9, 2001
Thanks for the comments. I must admit to being fond of this entry, which started its life as a thread in Ask the H2g2 Community.
There should be a fair amount of mileage in a TV/Film equivalent, the Twilight Zone springs to mind, and of course the Tardis. The problem would be sticking to concepts and away from catchphrases.
If you want to start the thread, please do. I don't think I want to do it. Keeping it on topic would be like herding cats, and the question needs to be asked very precisely.
I've tinkered with the "physically..." sentance.
Thanks again
B
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Swiv (decrepit postgrad) Posted Aug 9, 2001
I like the title
It piqued my curiousity, I had no idea what to expect of the entry, and was therefore joyously suprised.
The only point I can possibly query is in the paragraph on Lolita. Although the book does not make clear whether Humbert Humbert has indulged in paedophilia before, IMO is does suggest that he has known other 'nymphets'
But that's just a minor quibble
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
Hoovooloo Posted Aug 9, 2001
Hi Ben.
Quick point: Neuromancer won the Hugo, Nebula, and John W. Campbell awards for *1985*. I went back and checked the Sprawl short stories which preceded Neuromancer (Johnny Mnemonic, New Rose Hotel and Burning Chrome) and was amazed to find that the word cyberspace is not used in any of them - although Burning Chrome does refer to "the matrix".
Other than that - excellent!
H.
A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
DoctorGonzo Posted Aug 9, 2001
Something you might want to add:
It's been quite topical recently, and it's also widely misunderstood. Apparently, Michael Young's 'The Rise of the Meritocracy' was intended to be a satirical warning, rather than a manifesto for a planned utopia. But many people have misunderstood, and taken it as a Very Good Thing Indeed.
If you search on The Guardian's website, there's an article by Young himself.
DG
Thread Moved
h2g2 auto-messages Posted Aug 10, 2001
Editorial Note: This conversation has been moved from 'Peer Review' to 'Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction'.
This thread has been moved out of the Peer Review Forum because your entry has now been recommended for the Edited Guide.
You can find out what will happen to your entry here: http://www.h2g2.com/SubEditors-Process
Congratulations!
Thread Moved
Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! Posted Aug 10, 2001
Congrats! This entry has been chosen to pass through the gateway of Peer Review and to travel on the path to the Land of the Edited Guide. Along the way, the entry will be polished up by a sub-editor, and then have the honor of being touched by one of the in-house editors. The pinnacle of its journey will occur when it appears on the front page of the guide.
Keep up the good work!
Mikey
Thread Moved
Swiv (decrepit postgrad) Posted Aug 10, 2001
Congratulations A Girl called Ben (and collaborators)!
Thread Moved
Azara Posted Aug 10, 2001
Congratulations, Ben! for all your contributors as well. It's great to see someone make such a polished job of something that started out as a discussion!
Azara
Thread Moved
Munchkin Posted Aug 14, 2001
Well done agcBen. I shall just sit smugly by as my name gets associated with such a good article, even though I did very little towards its creation.
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A591626 - Peter Pan and Cyberspace: concepts created by writers of fiction
- 1: a girl called Ben (Jul 29, 2001)
- 2: Azara (Jul 29, 2001)
- 3: kane2742 (Jul 29, 2001)
- 4: a girl called Ben (Jul 29, 2001)
- 5: Azara (Jul 29, 2001)
- 6: a girl called Ben (Jul 29, 2001)
- 7: Ormondroyd (Jul 29, 2001)
- 8: a girl called Ben (Jul 30, 2001)
- 9: Mr Prophet (General Purpose Genre Guru) (Aug 9, 2001)
- 10: a girl called Ben (Aug 9, 2001)
- 11: Swiv (decrepit postgrad) (Aug 9, 2001)
- 12: Hoovooloo (Aug 9, 2001)
- 13: DoctorGonzo (Aug 9, 2001)
- 14: h2g2 auto-messages (Aug 10, 2001)
- 15: Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! (Aug 10, 2001)
- 16: Swiv (decrepit postgrad) (Aug 10, 2001)
- 17: Azara (Aug 10, 2001)
- 18: a girl called Ben (Aug 10, 2001)
- 19: Munchkin (Aug 14, 2001)
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