h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just to link things that are related to each other, and not duplicate entrie :
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But I still wish to insist that MANY groups that declare themselves working on Gurdjieff's teaching are actually fooling themselves, if not others (I am still looking for the ones that don't). It takes a lots of efforts to keep oneself on the proper tracks, and a lot more to keep a whole group.

Good luck in your search, wish to hear from you some time !

Vincent

Vincent, Thanks for your response. I have never encountered a [live] group, in fact I have found very few people who know about Gurdjieff or Ouspensky which makes it difficult to put flesh on the bones.
I share your thoughts on the film,it has the feel of unfinished business. In your reply to "the third man" [is that the exact title]
I think it is "[Meetings] with remarkable men" which now that I have written it looks somewhat pedantic.
The "Man is asleep" syndrome has a ring of truth in it, and of course it isn't only Gurdjieff who has presented that idea. It is found in scriptures and ancient writings, and the difficulty in being awake/vigilant in your purpose takes great effort and concentration.
I have no problem with Gurdjieff's superiority complex, I am more concerned with my own short comings and any idea that can stimulate or enlighten me is to my advantage.
Being of a gregarious nature I flew to your web site,very interesting.
I'm into Genealogy, so I was delighted with your old photographs.
Pleased to meet you. frank

Frank,

(on live "Gurdjieff" groups) I was part of a group, about 10 years ago, where Gurdjieff's writings and idea were balanced by the study of some traditional practices, Cashmeer yoga mainly. The group worked well when it was only 3 or 4 of us. Working hard, falling hard, but I learned a lot about myself, and man in general. But later on, our group increased, and the person who had started it all began to turn into a caricature of a guru. It seems difficult to keep a group going when the leader is only a few years ahead, and when the group starts to grow, it is as if it reinforced each member's ego, instead of working on identifying it.

Later on, I moved away from home, and to Taiwan, and I met a 'pure' Gurdjieff group who had grown into the full sect type : they were demanding that I break relations with most of my friends "who would not be able to follow me", pay quite an important monthly fee, etc. They also had extremely strict rules about attending meetings, that made social life outside of the group cery difficult... I agree that, after you have been a while on a quest of this kind, some of your entourage fades away, some of your social "obligations" do not seem so important after all, but I don't believe that you have to cut these out of your life. If they fall away, it is a natural phenomenon, not something you (or someone else) has to impose.
Just like celibacy for monks, vegetarianism for yogi : it comes naturally, should not be a "rule".

Anyway...
I am now like you, a lonely searcher of truth. Every now and then, I have to stop myself in the middle of terrible schedules, appointement, meeting, mental and physical fatigue, to remind myself that this is not what I want. Then it paces down for a while, daily observations bring their little pearls of truth, and then it is hectic again...
Does it sound familiar ?

It seems that, for me, physical practices (yoga, meditation, practice of Gudjieff's 'stop' and reminders, etc.) help to 'anchor' the quest in my life.

I have some family at home today, and they keep interrupting me. Sorry if this all sounds a bit confused. But I wanted to answer your message before other "emergencies" made it disappear from my memory.

I would like to keep our dialogue going for a while, if you want.

Till then, take care.

Vincent

Vincent, Sorry for the long delay in replying to your interesting comments. Unfortunately this PC has been sick and I have just brought it back to life with some new parts and tinkering - very mundane.
Your "group" experiences incline me to the view that they each in their own specific way desire the individual to be in an intellectual straight jacket. Abandoning friends and relationships to belong to the "group" is the kind of activity which has led to the possibility of, and execution of, the kind of mayhem which has been witnessed on planet earth, not just recently but down the ages.

Nevertheless I also believe that ideas permeate our conciousness
and provide us with the necessary tools to examine life, and hopefully live it to the full, in recognition of the need to be responsible to each other in mutual freedom. [as individuals]

People in their psychological portraits are very much like the iceberg
just the tip exposed and mostly submerged. We like to stay hidden except when we share some empathy - then there is a real "meeting"
and all things are possible. On that note I am retiring to my attic!

frank

I am glad to hear from you, I was affraid you did not like me... Me again, with my self-centered universe... would never suspect a technical problem on your side...

It is not so much that we *like* to stay hidden, but I believe that we are mostly hidden to ourself, with only tips (not just one) of the iceberg emerging, and us jumping randomly from one to the other...

"Waking up" sometimes one persona, sometimes another, and taking note of this, somehow helps making the map of this iceberg. Getting to know the fragments... Like a troup of actors, with their different names, voices, attires...

I just put a CD during my lunch break, happens to be (!) Gurdjieff & De Hartmann "Musics for the Movements". One piece that I particularly enjoy ("Exercises 1924 - N6") resonates heavily with the intellectual part of myself, the one persona that likes squares, rythme, equations, plans, and Bach... It is quite amusing to observe how my thoughts, even my physical posture, are affected by this piece !...
But maybe I shouldn't indulge too much into this, I know this part quite well already, and tend to identify a lot to it, looking down on the other selves...

-----------------------------------

I am missing the physical practice of my "yoga" days, but nothing happens when I am alone... I need a few "practice buddies" to tend to continuity. Thinking of enrolling my life-partner, and a co-worker with whom I have affinities, to a Chi-Kung practice... My partner met this Chi-Kung teacher, who appears to be the sincere and honnest type.
I think it does not really matter what you practice, as long as there is that special quality of attention on the "how". Could as well be cooking !

Lunch break is over, got to switch-off the CD and the internet.

Take care,

Vincent

Vincent, Thanks for the thoughts. Glad to hear from you. Thinking! how could I like or not like someone I haven't met,thanks to language I realised that it was your conversation which gave me insight into you and what I read I like. Iceberg [tips] I accept your definition, we are all to some degree like the butterfly, flitting from flower to flower. I have days without focus, going through the mechanics of life, I'm always busy but not always productive. At least our contact is making me rethink my position and I am opening old pages and finding they have lost none of their impact. If you would indulge me! I am about to write a couple of quotes from the Bhagavadgita part twelve 13/14.
I love my devotee -
the man of discipline always happy
Controlling himself, firm of will,
accepting all creatures
With solidarity and compassion,
not selfish, not self-centred,
With equanamity toward pleasant and unpleasant things,
Thought and meditation directed toward me.
and............
Part thirteen 11.
Cultivate knowledge pertaining to the self
and a view to the meaning of reality.
All this together constitutes wisdom.
What deviates from this is ignorance.
thankyou for your patience. I have been to a funeral today, remembered Auden's lines....Thoughts of ones own death.
Like the distant roll of thunder at a picnic.

frank

Hi Frank !

Almost a year since we last wrote to each other, so I thought I'd stop by and drop a line...

How have you been doing ?

Any more discoveries on the path of self-knowledge ?

Take care,

Vincent

Vincent, Good to hear from you. I have had a passive year with some highlights. Been reading [as usual] Set myself a goal to read M Proust's six volumes of 'In search of lost time' that was over a year ago, I'm into the second volume and I had thought to complete the set, however it is of no consequence I am enjoying the read.
In between the former I have read 'Samarkand' Amin Maalouf, 'Straw Dogs' John Gray, 'The Philosopher's Dog' Raymond Gaita and an old thinkers library publication by Gilbert Murray 'The Five stages of Greek religion' [all part of the search]. Currently I'm reading Joan Didion's 'Fixed Ideas-America since 9.11'.
Been walking in the Snowdon area, and recently done two paintings, a seascape and Crummock Water.
And all the while thinking about the human condition and observing how people cope with living [and dying]
Take care, frank