h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I never said his stance would be valid by any terms other than his own.

Hi Hoo .

And this is where we must disagree for I believe that each individual is basically good. We are born as clean slate intellectually, though the spirit that brings our consciousness can be ancient indeed. It is circumstance, experience and cultural education that writes upon that slate.

I have studied the human phenomenon that is Justin and carefully observed his reactions to the stimuli called Hoo, Ste', Noggin, Jordan, Insight and others. From this I have deduced what I stated previously. From my experience as a priest and healer I believe that anyone can be brought back from the brink if you can only find the right tools to do so.

Thus I persevere and in the meantime perform, with your good self, the ancillary task to which you refer of cordoning off and ameliorating Justin's less pleasant effects on the forum members that may stumble across him.

I applaud your altruism Hoo, though I wonder what you hope to achieve by your actions if you truly believe that Justin is simply beyond redemption.

If all you wish to do is stop his effects on your fellow forum members why not simply yikes! every hateful statment, every pernicious argument and have Justin removed from H2G2, like he was from the BBCi Religion Message Board? It would not be difficult to lead Justin to such a fate.

Could it be Hoo that you get something out of your continuous agressive interaction with Justin? A certain satisfaction and self-validation of your beliefs? Perhaps some justification for your rationalist perspective? After all he is every rationalist's dream target.

Whereas fantasists such as myself, Bod, Jordan, Insight, MaW and others are far more difficult to rile, bait or run rings around.

I wonder .

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Ah, Matholwch, you know me so well

"Could it be Hoo that you get something out of your continuous agressive interaction with Justin?"

I don't deny it. Apart from anything else, I'd think it obvious.

"A certain satisfaction and self-validation of your beliefs?"

Satisfaction? Yes. Self-validation? Not really. Justin/God's attitude doesn't in and of itself validate anything I believe - at least partly because I don't think I 'believe' anything in the way that you do. I'm a deeply non-spiritual person, something I think is quite entwined with the fact that I'm a deeply non-musical person... but that's irrelevant.

I don't get self validation from criticising and dissecting what Justin/God writes here - mainly some entertainment and a chance to vent a bit. I certainly don't think I or anyone else here is likely to have any actual effect on the man.

"Perhaps some justification for your rationalist perspective? After all he is every rationalist's dream target."

Don't think so. The rationalist's dream target, or at least MY dream target as a rationalist, would be an intelligent person reasonably convinced for some reason of an idea I could argue them into realising was fallacious - someone reachable. The intelligence of the target is a prerequisite since they must recognise and respect standard methods of discourse. A target who unsubscribes from any conversation which gets difficult or inconvenient is non-optimal. A target who regards intellect as a wretched and useless thing to be disregarded, is non-optimal. A target who rejects education, is non-optimal.

A target who rejects all those things, but still demands to live in a world built and maintained and made possible only because of the many people who do NOT reject such things - is non-optimal.

On reflection, I think a big factor in interacting with Justin/God is the fact that you can be confident that even if YOU, particularly are not necessarily right - and I make no claim, here, for the rightness of my position over yours, or Jordan's, or whoever else, because in this context it doesn't matter - the one thing you can be certain is that Justin/God is wrong. Or - and this is the kicker - in the appalling instance that he turned out to be right, you'd prefer to be where he says you're going to end up (i.e. a lake of fire), than in Justin/God's heaven - the bland, featureless, loveless, joyless place he has described.

Another reason: what I hope to achieve by my actions is to ensure that a purveyor of primitive superstition does not go unopposed on this site. I wouldn't pursue him somewhere else, but I feel protective towards this site, set up by and reflecting the ideas of one of the most eloquent and militant atheists Britain has ever produced. Can't explain it any more sensibly than that, and I'm fully aware of how much sense it makes (i.e. very little...).

Anyway, it's late.

H.

Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

It is a wonder that those who hear such things would rather attack it and try and dispose of it by denial, debate, dispute, intellect, reason, etc., than honour Almighty God by believing Him. But, as God has sworn by His Name, ALL will bow the knee, and ALL will confess to Him. Christians already have, by His grace, and believe Him, having met Him, spiritually.

"It is a wonder that those who hear such things would rather attack it ... than honour Almighty God by believing Him. "

It's possible, Justin/God, that you still, even after months of having it patiently explained to you, do not understand.

It is not a wonder at all. We hear "such things", not from God, but from some rambling old ex-alcoholic thieving adulterer.

Now, I ask you - what on earth can you do to convince me that I should pay any attention to you at all?

Once again (and this is getting tiring, but I'm very patient):

It is not God we disbelieve, or call a liar - it is YOU.

H.

It's nice to see someone arguing with the enemies of God here, but, why do you bother? They don't seem to be able to do anything but argue with the Truth. It seems like a waste of time. You can't move a stone by arguing with it.

TLI:

I assume the stone you are referring to is Justin/God. One of the things I pride myself on is being flexible, and amenable to reason - something Justin/God rejects out of hand.

Also, if you think I can't do anything but argue with the Truth, you clearly are not paying attention or are so intellectually lazy that you cannot be bothered to do the most basic research before spouting.

For your information: I am one of the top twenty most prolific contributors of Edited Entries to the guide - 27, on subjects as diverse as unicycling, physics, windsurfing, art, film, television, computers and statistics. I wrote the Transgressions Procedure for lifetime bans as employed, I think, not just on h2g2 but even on other DNA sites, and approximately 20% of the text on the Peer Review intro page was written by me, also. None of which has any relevance to anything Justin/God says - so please don't lie about me again. Thank you.

If it's a one-trick pony you're looking for, look no further than Justin/God. He really can't do anything else - at least, there's no evidence of it on this site. A more monomaniacal user I've yet to observe. You might ask him why he can't do anything else but spout his nonsense. Don't hold your breath for an answer, though.

H.

Besides, one of the things we've been trying to do here is to establish the basis on which the Truth is claimed to be the Truth, and thereby what the appropriate meaning of words like truth and knowledge is.
Unfortunately, although we've managed to establish that Justin doesn't use these words with their usual meanings, we haven't been able to elicit an explanation of what he DOES mean. Now, agreed, that does make the conversation a little pointless, but we're a persevering lot here, as you've probably noticed.

Noggin

Last Imperial,

I would not bother to argue, I just tell them the truth. When they meet the Lord Jesus, either when they are saved, or when they come up from Hell for Judgement before Him, they will not be able to say 'I did not know.'

I feel nothing but pity for the poor, blind, and deceived souls, really. I don't read what they say now, they have been told.

There you go, TLI. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Noggin

Hi Justin and The Last Imperial .

I am surely looking forward to meeting the Mabon Jesus, if only to appeal to his merciful nature with regards to Justin.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Unread /|\.

Hmmmm

Hey Justin, you hmmmm it and I'll play it .

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.