h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev.20:11-15

Ever so many of those who stand there will be screaming, "Didn't I always say that I did not believe in all this! Didn't I say such things did not exist!" But there they will be.

Or not be, as the case may be.

You really do seem to get a kick out of thinking about all the people who are not the same as you getting their comeuppance, don't you?

How it must bug you that it doesn't get to happen in this life. Still, by transferring your sadistic fantasies to a place where you are the self proclaimed authority gets round that rather neatly doesn't it? Pity there's no independent evidence, of course, but you can't have everything can you?

Noggin

Noggin,

Very true, there is no evidence other than what God says, and His creation you see all around you. You gamble that either He does not exist, or, if He does, He is a bare faced liar, like Saddam Hussein.

I know Him, like all Christians do (with the exception of the nominals), and He says that God CANNOT lie.

He does Nog.

The wierd thing is, we seemingly can't do anything about it. If God chooses us then we're lucky. If not then it's the lake of fire. It also doesn't seem to matter if you lie, steal, or cheat on your wife, if you are Chosen, you're Chosen. Wonderful.

So, here Justin is just saying "Ner ner!, I'm saved and you're not!". He is gloating. It's a bit pitiful really isn't it?

Ste

It is pitiful. I am starting to feel real pity for Justin.

The thing that makes me feel for him most is his fervent belief in what he calls Scripture.

I can believe (although to what extent I won't discuss) that some aspects of the Bible may be inspired. The two bits I have greatest faith in are the commandments, 10 in the old testament and 2 in the new. These seem to me to be the fundamental truths behind all religions and exemplify an ideal that would be hard to achieve.

Aside from the biographical aspects of the lives of Moses and Jesus, the balance of the Bible was written by men, with their own motives. Unfortunately they were men with an interest in consolidating the hold of the priesthood, church, ministry or whatever you care to call it over their fellows. Their writings are largely fueled by fear and ignorance.

It is a real shame too, that they were mostly men like Justin.

Justin's journal is like so much of the Bible, totally divorced from the message and meaning of the 12 commandments, but because he says so and believes it, the Word of God.

The commandments are really important yet rather than evaluate his pronouncements against such a simple set of rules, Justin will probably dismiss them. He will most likely draw on one of Paul's many letters, or perhaps a section from Leviticus to condemn theft, life, love and homosexuality.

Yet Jesus is reported to have preached "love thy neighbour as thy self". I'm sure everyone would have noticed if that verse had continued with "except the fornicators, adulterers, thieves, sodophiles and anyone else that my ministry is afraid of".

Hi Justin .

OK, now I am somewhat confused. You have maintained for months that it matters not what you do in your life, but that through faith alone you will be chosen. You have also stated that this faith can only be authored by God, we can't create it ourselves. Am I clear and correct so far?

Yet now you quote from Revelations:

"and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

I am not using logic or 'wretched intellect', but taking the clear and unequivocal Word of God at face value here. It says, quite distinctly, that we will be judged "according to our works".

Just how does this match with all your previous preachings then? It is obvious to anyone who reads this passage that it does matter how you live your life.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Hi Madent .

Please do not pity Justin. Pity does not help him. Instead perhaps come over to my little hill and look at him from my perspective, just for a moment.

From my vantage point I see a man desperate to prove that his beliefs are valid. To verify what others have told him about the rest of the world. These teachings include such 'facts' as all real Christians experience persecution. On the street corner he, like most preachers, is roundly ignored by the people - rather dispiriting really. So he comes here and tries hard to find the persecution and prejudice he expects and that will justify his faith. Even amongst his most vociferous opponents, such as myself, Hoo and many others, he finds a calm acceptance and a willingness not just to listen but also engage with him. How disappointing. So he ups the ante and starts coming out with more and more provocative statements in order to get the response he craves - net result, more calm and reasonable debate. How frustrating!

But why does he need this validation? From what we have gleaned of his past Justin has done some things in his life that he deeply regrets for at his core he is an honourable man. This regret and guilt has weighed upon his soul. In his pain he turned to a faith that promises absolution and forgiveness. There is nothing wrong with that, Christianity has provided such solace for millions over the centuries. The merciful and saving nature of Jesus is what makes the faith so attractive and valuable to humanity.

Although this has undoubtedly helped Justin, he is an intelligent and honourable man and so he seeks validation so that he can be assured that he has put the demons of his past to bed, forever.

From my little hill I see a man wrestling with doubt, a man in pain. This is why I stay to engage with him, for all druids are healers by nature and if I can assist him to face his demons and overcome them I will have served my purpose.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Hi, Math

Perhaps compassion would have been a better way of putting it. I really wish I could help Justin to help himself deal with his own pain.

Matthew 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

You would think that this might finally be a quotation that could be attributed to Jesus, but no, this one while from a Gospel is attributed to none other than John the Baptist.

It is a remarkable irony that in this passage John is warning the priesthood to beware the coming of Jesus lest they feel his wrath.

You are a minister, aren't you, Justin? Take heed of your own words.

"From what we have gleaned of his past Justin has done some things in his life that he deeply regrets for at his core he is an honourable man. This regret and guilt has weighed upon his soul."

I have to say I disagree. I see no regret or guilt whatsoever in what Justin/God [see other threads for Justin's absolutely categorical statement that he and God are NOT separate entities...] says about himself. He is absolutely clear that nothing he did in his life - drinking to excess, lying, thieving, adultery, hypocrisy, all the rest - was in ANY way his fault. He is adamant that all these actions at the time were merely the symptom of an infection he had when he was conceived - that he was doing only what he MUST do, as a sinner. There is never any suggestion that he was in any way to blame for any of it, but rather that he was a helpless servant of Satan with no responsibility at all. The phrase "I voss only followink orderss" springs to mind.

Further, he believes that one day he was miraculously and *instantly* washed clean of all this history of behaviour, and was now free to begin abusing other people for being like he was until that moment.

He further now believes himself completely free of any concept of wrongdoing - he believes himself literally incapable of sin, so long as he is God.

I see nothing honourable whatever in this pattern of behaviour. I see rather an immaturity and a refusal to face up the consequences of ones own actions which I would consider contemptible in a ten year old child, let alone a "man" of Justin's advanced years.

I do not believe Justin is, at his core, an honourable man. I believe he is, at his core, an unpleasant and sadistic fantasist who has no concept of personal responsibility, and who will use any tactic available to deflect blame for what he does from himself and onto others. The concept that he is occasionally allowed access to firearms disturbs me greatly.

Nor do I believe, as Matholwch says he does, that Justin is in some way struggling with doubt. I believe he is absolutely comfortable in his position, and has no doubts at all.

I believe he is not posting here to test his faith or to assuage doubts, for he has none. He is posting here because he enjoys it - he quite clearly gets a kick out of his fantasies, and gets a bigger kick out of talking about them in public. He MUST get something out of it, otherwise he wouldn't carry on so relentlessly.

He is demonstrably somewhat obsessed with:

- sodomy
- feminism, and assertive, powerful women in general
- the torture and burning of women and children

He likes thinking about these things - he obviously thinks about them a lot. He further likes talking about them in public. He reminds me of nothing so much as a schoolboy who has discovered you can say "bastard" in front of a teacher, as long as you're talking about William the Bastard in a history lesson, or a bastard file in a metalwork lesson.

Justin/God can talk for as long as he likes, in public, about the things he likes thinking about (sodomy, the torture and burning of women and children etc.), and he can avoid being labelled a sadistic pervert because his position is "it really is appalling".

Honourable? I don't see it.

Pity? I wouldn't waste it.

Healing? He doesn't believe he's sick, and neither do I. It's a more and more common trend, particularly in the US, to try to classify all sorts of dangerous and anti-social behaviour as some sort of "illness", as though they will respond to treatment. I think this is a pernicious fallacy. People like Justin/God are not ill (unless he has, as he very well might, actual paranoid schizophrenia - I'm not the first to suggest it, and I doubt I shall be the last). No - not ill, just unpleasant and potentially dangerous. Which is why it's a good thing that there are people like Matholwch, Ste, Noggin, etc., who can spot such things and surround them with a cordon of reason. Long may it continue...

H.

Has Justin anywhere indicated what happened to his child?

Hoovooloo

"... to try to classify all sorts of dangerous and anti-social behaviour as some sort of "illness", as though they will respond to treatment. I think this is a pernicious fallacy."

I would suggest that we have a duty to at least initially treat such behaviour as an illness. Some, possibly the more intelligent ones, might respond favourably and begin to see that they have to take responsibility for their own actions. Once they realise this then they are on the path to functioning normally in society.

To do otherwise is to behave in at least as poor a manner as they themselves do. However if after a prolonged period of "treatment" there is still no improvement then I guess I would have to concur.

You have to wonder how much of their fantasies people like Justin actually engage in, either prior to their "salvation" or subsequently (which since they can no longer commit "sin" this might make them more dangerous).

I can only assume that the hiding of Hoo's post is down to the use of the word B*****d. I really wish the moderator concerned had actually read that paragraph fully.

Madent:

No. In fact it is not at all clear whether or not Justin has managed to breed successfully at all. Any particular reason why you ask?

I note that my last posting has been hidden while it's decided whether it contravenes House Rules. I trust it will be made visible again in due course.

If not, and if the moderation email fails as usual to make clear which precise sentences within the quite long posting caused it to fail, I shall have no alternative but to post it all again, a paragraph at a time, so as to make sure none of the NONoffensive parts are hidden unreasonably. The offensive parts can be hidden without problems, and the rest can remain visible unmolested.

It pains me to have to do this, it really does, but as long as the moderation emails persist in refusing to be specific, there really is no sensible alternative other than having the Editorial staff simply remove the offending sentences and place ****'s in their place, and make the posting visible again.

I'd be very happy to do what the moderation emails suggest, and remove the offensive content myself and repost - but unless I know WHAT is causing the problem, this is sadly impossible. Unlike certain other people who have posted to this thread, I'm not labouring under delusions of omniscience, and I am not a mindreader. Sorry.

H.

Madent: It simply never occurred to me that my use of the word "b*****d" might be the reason for moderation - apart from anything else, the usual action in such a case is to simply star out the word and make the post visible. Of course, such action would not have been appropriate in this case, since I was using the word in its technically correct senses, to refer to the alternative name of William the Conqueror, and to a specific piece of metalwork equipment. Hey ho. I've long given up expecting consistency or competence...

"I would suggest that we have a duty to at least initially treat such behaviour as an illness."

Hmm. I disagree. We should INITIALLY treat such behaviour as dangerously antisocial, first and foremost. Perhaps AFTER that aspect has been dealt with, then possibly looking into reasons for it may be appropriate.

"However if after a prolonged period of "treatment" there is still no improvement then I guess I would have to concur."

Therein lies the problem - how long is "prolonged"? How long do you keep on indulging someone before you have to give up and admit they're bad, not mad, and that there's nothing you can do about it?

The first step on the road to recovery from many types of problem is recognising the existence of the problem. What do you do with a case who refuses to realise he even has a problem?

"You have to wonder how much of their fantasies people like Justin actually engage in"

I do wonder idly about that. I wonder particularly that he rails against lying, thieving and adultery - all of which he has personal experience of - but also seems to have a very specific bee in his bonnet about homosexuality and in particular the act of sodomy, and the torture and burning of children.

Like you say, you have to wonder...

H.

Justin indicated in his personal testimony that during an adulterous relationship prior to his salvation, his lover fell pregnant. I just wonder how much this has contributed to his current state of mind. If he has a child that he has never seen it would explain one aspect of his outlook.

"The first step on the road to recovery from many types of problem is recognising the existence of the problem. What do you do with a case who refuses to realise he even has a problem?"

How do you get an alcoholic to admit they have a problem?


From my point of view, I suspect that Justin feels that he has already admitted that he had problems and that salvation was his treatment. Unfortunately rather than facing his problems and dealing with them directly he has instead chosen to close the book on the past and start anew, reborn, as though the past was that of a different person. Thus his problems are still there, hidden under the veneer of his beliefs and slowly but surely perverting and polluting the man within.

"How do you get an alcoholic to admit they have a problem?"

If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be wasting my time messing about on this website, I'd be making my million and putting Alcoholics Anonymous out of business, or rather possibly sending them more business, come to think of it...

"From my point of view, I suspect that Justin feels that he has already admitted that he had problems and that salvation was his treatment."

Hmm. I don't think saying "I was infected with sin from conception and therefore could not help but do what I did" is in any way admitting you had a problem which was in any way your responsibility - and responsibility is the issue.

H.

Reason prevails and post 11 is visible again. My faith in and respect for the moderators/Editors goes up several notches...

H.