h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Ian,

I had already given Joanbunting you web page address in message 23.

You said
"This thread is a very good example of why I don't often bother with the BBC anymore. Intolerance abounds, and there is insufficient moderation to prevent it."

I can remember you saying that you were not going to stay on the Beeb because of the new rules (like no boards apart from Q&A, no snagging, no recipes, etc.) not because of any unpleasantness in threads. They haven't quite got to the Meringuegate style yet and you stayed after that and many other unpleasant spats. I must admit that I was rather surprised that you should have said that on the Beeb pages today. You like Wildfood as do many others, some of us prefer the Beeb. There has been unpleasantness on Wildfood too, but as you say good moderation helps.

I hope you and Jacqui are well and business is good. Take care
Dena

This post has been removed.

Ian, if this reaches you I will be amazed.

I am not at all experienced with all this stuff. i guess i can be counted as one of the elderly confused but would love to talk more about what you are doing and send my best wishes!

Joan

Hi Joan,
> Ian, if this reaches you I will be amazed.

Well it did, so be amazed!!!!

>I am not at all experienced with all this stuff. i guess i can be counted as one of the elderly confused but would love to talk more about what you are doing and send my best wishes!

h2g2 is pretty confusing to be honest, and you did fine! I'm not even really sure what the Beeb thought it was going to be used for. It's more private than the forums, and because there's no ostensible topic, in general it's free from the sort of moronic barracking you and Julie had the misfortune to put up with. However anyone who wants to CAN read it, and CAN complain, s you might have seen.

Thanks for replying here anyway. I think Tatihou suggested how to get in touch with me outside the Beeb.

As you may have seen from my entry, Jacquie (my better half) and I run a (Gites de France 3 épi) B&B in the Correze, in a village called Forgès not too far from the river Dordogne, and to be able to give my guests a good choice of jams for breakfast, I've been making them in near commercial quantities for some 18 years. However, I've only once made cherry jam, and I was sufficiently disappointed never to want to try it again. With about 10 that succeed perfectly year after year and no fruit from the trees in my garden, I reckon life's too short to fight against the odds.

However your and Tatihou's comments about it make me curious, so I might try a kilo or two in various ways to see what succeeds if anything.

As you may have gathered from comments here and elsewhere, my forays onto the BBC food page are increasingly rare. If you did want to chat further, it might be best either via email or via Wildfoods, if ever I can manage to talk you though the sign on process. Normally it's fairly straightforward.

Hi Dena,

As always in these things, it's a combination of causes. At the time of the meringuegate row, Wildfoods didn't exist as a viable alternative. Wilco was good and moderation balanced on the whole. In addition, the atmosphere on the Beeb whole was a lot better.

When a perfectly innocent request from one beeber to another gets torn to shreds, and complaints about them don't get supported by the host or the mods, AND the general tone of conversation is confrontational and agressive, then it's not for me.

I've found that I can only find the time to properly support one forum, At one time the BBC was the best there was IMO and I cut right back on alt.food.wine and robin garr's food and wine pages. Wildfoods takes up most of my "online" time now. I'd like to see more serious foodie chat on wildfoods but let's face it, threads and contributions are not created just by me. While it would be fair to say that the policy of "food only" discussion on the Beeb has reduced the chatter, it has also reduced the level of mutual support and the creation of real friendships. On balance, I'll take wildfoods. I'd also point out that even if "food only" chat is the rule, somehow the mods seem to allow aggression and sniping but not pleasant and agreeable posts like "happy birthday".

As for the cases of unpleasantness on Wildfoods. As far as I can remember, we've only had about 5 or 6 spats, and that in over a year's worth of posts. Most have been overspills from the Beeb, haven't they? They were almost all dealt with very swiftly. Apart from overt spammers, which do come from time to time, we've only had to ban something like 4 people, but nevertheless the overall ambiance is supportive, friendly and positive, even when people disagree fundamentally.

Sorry about the length Dena, but I felt that you deserved a complete answer.

Thanks for the good wishes. You're one of the people on the Beeb who has been meticulously polite and whose contributions have been positive. I'm sad you don't feel Wildfoods is for you.

All the best
Ian

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your reply.

I agree with you on so many points, and really miss the old boards, there is always room for people of all levels of expertise but there seems to be so little actual food discussion nowadays and I miss that.

I still remember reading with interest your pork butchering thread (amongst others) and I still use your recipe base often.

Someone on the board mentioned black garlic and I must admit I hadn't heard of it, so googled and found an on-line catering supplier that does sell this, but I was really interested in their equipment, from sous vide to molecular gastronomy. At the moment they have a beginners pearl making kit for cocktails very cheaply, so I have treated myself. Sounds fun. Would have made an interesting thread a year or so ago.

If you want to google them it sounds like a dairy suppliers. i.e. cream supplies.

I know things never stay the same, they have to evolve, but such a shame that our dear old boards changed so much. It is a shame that I don't feel that Wildfood is for me but (and I am most probably wrong) it seems very much like chatterbox, and I never used that beeb facility.

Thanks again for your reply, I hope that you and Jacqui have a very successful and busy summer

Best wishes

Dena

Dear Dena,

(and for once the salutation is not a polite formula, but meant sincerely.)

All Forums are what their owners and users make of them. I know one (on sausagemaking) where the level of expertise and interest is astonishing, but where not much chatter takes place. However they have perhaps half a dozen new posts a day. Wildfoods has a policy - perhaps as a reaction against the changes in the BBC Food board - of being extremely relaxed about chatter.

Between us, I'd much prefer it if there were a higher standard of food based posting, but having lived through the changes here, you can see that draconian enforcement of "ontopicity" is less than ideal too.

If you and others who wanted to talk without perpetual barracking about food were to come and join us, then the proportion would improve.

In the meantime, can I just say that there are two main parts of Wildfoods, "The kitchen" where the conversations are much closer to those on the old food forums, but without some of the sillier posters, and "The Coffee Shop" which is where the more general chatter takes place. At the moment, there are at least 5 times as many posts in the Coffee Shop than in The Kitchen. However, the fact that the board is divided in this way does mean that once can keep one's reading to the more tightly food based discussions very easily.

I do miss some (maybe a dozen or so) of the posters from the BBC who haven't joined us there. It would be quite wrong of me to plug Wildfoods openly in the Board, but I'd love it if they would join us. However, while present policies are in place with the emasculated conversations that are "allowed", there is little chance that I'll become a regular poster there. And I think that - without having talked about it with them - I can say that the same is true for quite a number of ex regulars, especially the more serious ones. We do understand how that has left some of the others bereft, but there are limits as to the level of silliness and intolerance I can live with.

That said, we do have a moderation team there and if there's one thing we will absolutely not tolerate is aggressive bickering. And a "three strikes" rule means that people do behave generally very well. Apart from that, we take it very badly if a Wildfood regular gloats there on having wound up people on the Beeb or publicly takes pleasure in the worst of the silliness. The best moderation is one that never has to be used!!

And talking of black garlic; as it happens I was in my local trade wholesaler (the French equivalent of Makro) and they had some in the "fresh foods" section - Korean iirc.

And - talking of sous vide cookery; this morning, I butchered down three farm chooks, to make a hungarian dish with the legs, and so I seasoned and vac packed the breasts and cooked them for 1h40 mins (long enough to pasteurize them) at 64°C to be used later. I'll probably use them to make an adapted "Archiduc" dish.

I wish you well, and hope that sooner or later you'll come and join in.

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your very kind comments.

You mentioned archiduc, do you know what happened to her. She too was a very knowledgeable poster and had a lot of interesting posts for a while, then she just disappeared.

Please don't think I am going to expect you to carry on with a private conversation, it is just that I have just finished watching a TV programme that made me think of you and Jacqui on TV (BBC4) - Allegri's Miserere with Harry Christophers and the Sixteen. Brilliant - which leads me to the Royal Wedding today, the choir were wonderful and such wonderful pomp and circumstance. I had purposely not watched/listened/read all the media hype so really enjoyed today. Prince William looked so relaxed and happy and Catherine looked absolutely beautiful and, dare I say, serene(?) and they looked really in love and comfortable with each other.

It was wonderful to see the millions (no exaggeration) of people in London for the event and all so happy. They had interviews from people who had come from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, America and all countries in Europe, France, Germany etc. etc. It made me feel quite proud that these ordinary people had cared enough to travel here for the event. I am not an ardent royalist but this is one thing the Brits do well - the Pomp and circumstance, the clockwork timetable, the wonderful uniforms of the guards battalions and other military dress uniforms, the music, the horses and the coaches. As the Duchess of Cambridge (Kate's royal title)said as she came out onto the balcony of Buckingham Palace, and looked at the thousands and thousands of people covering the Mall "Oh wow". Wow, I am waxing lyrical - sorry. Don't know how you feel about it being an ex-pat but it was an occasion for feeling proud to be British (well I think so).

Best wishes
Dena