h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: A (very) brief history of Ireland - A698862
Author: Woodpigeon (preparing the nest) - U30129

I know this might be contentious, but I wanted to provide a historical perspective on Ireland in a very brief, easy to digest format, and to focus only on those things that created a permanent impact on the Ireland of today. I hope I have tried to be as balanced as possible, but I would like you to decide.

Seems like a fair overview to me, but I think I'll stand aside on this one and let the experts comment...

Azara, Gnomon, this one's for you I think...

Within a short period, the Irish population outside of Ulster were actively demanding full independence from Ireland, and a vicious guerrilla war ensued when a government, openly hostile to Britain, was elected in 1919.



should there be another britain in there somewhere?



this is great work, simple but informative, well done.

one query......when it was split into NI and Eire did people get the chance to choose where they lived? or did they just had to stay there and put up with whatever government they got?

a mention at the end might be nice on the situation in scotland and wales r.e.self government at current time and how it compares to n. ireland.




the stuff about the early church is hard to write because from casually reading it it sounds very very pro irish etc. but when i did this period at college this is actually what is true. perhaps you could mention a couple of thing like....book of keels (entry just gone through peer review) for example to give this a little more validity.

infact more links in general would be good. are there any on the americam war of independance for example. it would be a good way of keep your entry to the point but including more info



really good job there

FABT

I'll be back for a detailed read later, but it's looking good so far. Now, I know you are almost certainly going to be hit with a lot of suggestions for inclusions, but (but I'm going to do it anyway) how about mentioning that Elizabeth I didn't just send armies over to sort the locals out, she also sent colonists to settle the land and supplant the population.
And... The suggestion that Vikings imparted the national fondness for beer...I was under the impression that the Celts had an inordinate fondness for alchohol, especially wine. Did the Vikings introduce beer? I was fairly sure ale was already relatively popular.

Frogbit
(Did I say I thought it was great, nonetheless?)
(ready to be educated)

Thanks a lot for the input so far! I will definitely consider everything you have noted.

I was being a bit facetious regarding the Vikings and beer, and I think the Celts drank an alcoholic brew known as mead, so it may be a bit of a distraction to have made this point, as well as being perhaps totally inaccurate! I'll consider either researching further, or removing the point totally.

Thanks again!

Woodpigeon

actually everyone drank beer/ale/wine. anything fermented basically because the water wasnt safe to drink

the alcohol we are talking about for the most part wasnt strong, otherwise not only would everyone be drunk, but they would also be very dehydrated.


FABT

The *alchohol* may not have been strong, but neolithic pot-sherds have been analysed and found to contain traces of ale and henbane - a strong hallucinogen.

<>

I don't think there were barriers to people moving as such, but the reasons for moving or staying put are fairly complex. A lot of Protestants left Eire during the first few decades after independence, while Catholic migration from Northern Ireland into Eire was not very significant. Eire was desperately poor during the first few years of independence, and the dominant flow of people during the first forty years was away from Ireland completely - mainly the US and Britain. Northern Ireland remained relatively prosperous during this time. I also think that poverty, attachment to the land, family ties, and the strong patriotic bind "this is my country, why should I leave?" played a very big part in keeping people where they lived.

Hi, Woodpigeon!

As a quick gallop through a couple of thousand years, this is very good! I'll think about a lot of the other points, and get back to you, but one thing that caught my eye was the footnote about Civil War casualties - I'm fairly sure that you're out by a factor of ten here. Perhaps you could check?

I think you should give a date for Saint Patrick and the arrival of Christianity - I can see that you've banished most of the dates to footnotes, but I think you should give people a handle on the timescale in the Christianity paragraph.

More comments to come when I've thought about it a bit more!

Azara

Looks good to me, though I don't know much about the subject. One grammar point: "One can’t help but conjuring up the image..." should be either "One can’t help conjuring up the image..." or "One can’t help but conjure up the image...".
Many of your footnotes could be included in the main text, number 9 for instance.

Great suggestions all! I have made as many updates to the article as battery power has permitted me. Thanks very much for your suggestions.

Azara, I checked the number of civil war casualties. You were right. Thanks for spotting this.



Woodpigeon

As another expert, I think this is quite a good jaunt through the history of the emerald Isle. In fact it is making me feel homesick as well as thinking I'll need to do some research to expand on some of these points.

This is a good article and I hope it does make the guide as Ireland needs more representation.

Agreed. An excellent sprint through Ireland's history. Each paragraph could easily make an entry in itself and hopefully will in the fullness of time.
A couple of nitpicky grammatical errors - you've missed a 'to' in your Famine paragraph (..events were TO take place..) and you've a misplaced apostrophe to remove at the top of your Troubles paragraph (...maintain ITS position...)
No problems with the content. You end on an upbeat note, more optimistic than I usually feel about things but I'm not going to complain about that, just hope you're right.

MC

Well done, Woodpigeon. This looks good on a quick reading. I only spotted a few things, but I'll do a more detailed look tomorrow.

The link to my Newgrange entry is wrong. It should be A647912.

The Celts did not arrive in 2,500 BC. They only got to Ireland in 300 BC, believe it or not. There was actually another group of people between the Newgrange-building lot and the Celts, called the Beaker people, but I can't tell you anything about them.


Is Galway really a Viking city? I know the others you mention are, and so is Wexford, but I never heard that about Galway.

Henry VIII wasn't really a proponent of Protestantism. He just made himself the leader of the church, instead of the pope. Real protestantism came later on with Wesley and Calvin, as far as I know. I'm not an expert on the Reformation.

I'd describe the Famine as Mid 19th Century rather than Early.

Gnomon!

I think you misread the date for the Celts: it said 2,500 years ago, not 2,500 BC when I looked at it!

Azara

Touché!

Thanks a lot for the further suggestions! I have made as many updates as I could - grammatical errors and links included!

The Beaker people is an interesting one - was that not a European movement, which might not actually have reached Ireland? I must check this...

Good spotting about Galway - I didn't realise that Galway is a much newer community in many ways - although it was a small fishing village for a long time, it only really took off as a centre of commerce as late as the fifteeenth century. The Vikings, for their part, were more interested in burning down the place, and had little interest in the development of the city.

I think I will leave the Henry VIII account as it is for the time being, as it does represent the beginnings of the challenge to the Catholic status quo. Although it is true that Henry made few changes to the Catholic practice, he did found the Church of England, which is regarded as Protestant. Also, I will also leave the famine in the early 19th century paragraph, as I am just splitting the 19th century into Early and Late paragraphs.

The viking beer reference is still irritating me. I'll find something better to put in its place.



Woodpigeon

Actually, I can tell you one thing about the Beaker people. They erected the ring of standing stones around the great mound at Newgrange, many years after the mound itself was built. So they definitely were in Ireland. That's all I know.

Although I would like Patrick to be Welsh, he was born in Scotland;

Apostle of Ireland, born at Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton, in Scotland, in the year 387; died at Saul, Downpatrick, Ireland, 17 March, 493.

Alji

Nobody knows where Patrick was born, other than that he was born in Roman Britain (i.e. the part of Great Britain which was occupied by the Romans). In his own writings, he says that his father lived in the town of Bannavem Taberniea. Roman Britain does extend as far north as the south of Scotland, but it can't be stated conclusively that he was born in Kilpatrick. I think it would be better to say "Roman Britain" rather than Wales to avoid any argument.