h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I don't believe so. What did you expect the building to do when a large aeroplane struck it at a high speed? The buildings DID stay standing for more than an hour, and the structure would probably still be standing were it not for the hot fire.
Any type of insulating material for the steel beams can only hold so long before structural failure of the beams. The World Trade Center was actually built with a much greater beam density than other skyscrapers. Had it only been built to standard, we would have seen a much greater loss of life as the buildings would probably have collapsed instantaneously.

Hi Wallace,

Am interesting point, however had the experts, ie firecrews etc, expected it to collapse, despite their courage I doubt if so many would have entered the structure.

I feel that they were as surprised as many of us when the collable occured. It was not as if the impacts were at the points of maximum stress in the structure. Had this occured it seems certain that the towers would have instantly collapsed.

The designers must have had a brief from the people paying for the WTC, and survivability from aircraft impacts must have been on the list, and this requirement has clearly not been met.

Best regards
Donchik

Being that I've spent some 17 or more years in Passive Fire Protection as a technical advisor to architechts and engineers on buildings from office blocks through Oil Refinaries/ offshore rigs and Nuclear Power Stations, I think I'm pretty much quallified to answer this. The type of fire that occurred at the WTC was far and above the normal kind of fire such a building is designed for. What you had there was more akin to The Piper Alpha disater (for those who don't recall Piper Alpha was one of Occidental's Oil Rigs in The North Sea.)

There are two basic types of fire curves used Hydorcarbon ( High Rise) and Cellulosic (Slow Burn). Hybrocarbon fires burn fiercely and temperatures that cellulosic fires reach are achieved in a fraction of the time. Needless to say your average office building does not experience thousands of gallons of highly inflamable aviation hydrocarbons bursting into flame after a 75 tonne aircraft hits it at some 400mph; Nor in fact do Oil refinaries though you might just argue that an offshore North Sea Rig does now, after the Piper Alpha. (The Sinteff tests on Passive Fire Protetion are an explosin followed by a 2hour Supersonic Jet Fire followed by water dousing followed by further jet fire.)

Now you can as a rule of thumb guesstimate equivalences in fire ratings (many hundreds of fire tests give you a good idea as to what will happen coupled with inspecting the aftermaths of many fires from small Schools to the remains of The Piper Alpha and of course High Rise office Blocks or Skyscrapers) given the circumstances of the fire that occure at both towers I and all my colleagues in the industry whom I have spoken with have no reasons to believe that the fire protection failed. And I say that as an experienced competitor.

Perhaps you should raise the question Should the fuel in the Aircraft have been less flamable and whilst you are at it why were airbags not fitted ? Also should buildings of over 5 floors high be equiped with parachutes They are all possible and wothy of serious consideration.

Unfortuneately the world we live in is far from perfect all we can do is try to do the best that is REASONABLY POSSIBLE. What was done on the 11th was above and beyond anyone's reasons. It was tradgic and what people do in such circumstances is often beyond reasonable comprehension and bravery. It was clearly illustrated by many tens of thousands of ordinary and extraordinary people that day. From the the poor souls that jumped a thousand feet to their certain death, the heros of the Fire Brigades trying to save as many as possible without a thought for their own security, to the bravery of people who wrestled some of the purpotrators in the sky.

No this world we live in is full of faults and errors but what we must all do is pull together to try and make this world a better place not tear it appart and cast blame. This is what is known as Humanity.

Kelvin (tiggsaviates Yes I'm a pilot also)

The buildings' weakness would seem to be the structure of the floors, or more specifically poor maintenance of the trusses. The floors were were supported by a truss structure which is very light and strong. Building inspections up to 10 years previously had reported sections of the strusses to have no or poor insulation. This may have been because it wasn't applied, wasn't applied properly, or wasn't maintained. A recent TV documentary suggested it may have been applied to rusted surfaces which caused it to fall off as the rust flakes disengaged from the metal structure over time. With this kind of vulnerability to the effect of the heat of the fire, the metal in the unprotected areas softened in the trusses, the floors gradually bent and colapsed. The truss was a major support of the walls of the building, and with no support the building gave way.

It can be hypothesised that had adequate amounts of insulation been applied, the building may have remained or at least stood long enough for it to be evacuated.

Ron