h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If like me, you find this idea of adding age bands to children's (and adult) books to be another example of pigeon-holing and de-individualising (is that a word? In this silly politically correct age it probably is) society sign up to the petition against it here:

http://www.notoagebanding.org/index.php?home

Thanks.

Already did that, Matt. You'll find me under Biegel

Good to see there's some kind of action we can take.

I put this point on Ask recently and was surprised at the number of people who think it's perfectly ok to age-band books.

Age banding books All through my childhood I was reading what I was told were books too old for me (not that kind) but my parents were amazed when I asked for a Dickens book for my ninth birthday.

I can understand videos and DVDs being marked to give some indication of the content and age range, but books?!!!

Off to look,

Websailor

In principle, I can see some merit to age banding (which, btw, we have here in Germany) but only for the bog-standard average reader. Which I have yet to meet.

I went into primary school with a "reading age" of 18 and read anything and everything I could get my hands on. The dictionary if nothing else was available. I have not changed.

My daughters don't particularly like to read - although they do love me to read to them, so I do a lot of it (which probably feeds into their not wanting to read for themselves), but recently I've noticed they are reading more and more. In fact they read most nights now, after I've put them in bed.

#1 Gruesome is 11. She is a slow reader but I've recently found a series of books that she loves - and she's consuming them at a rapid rate of knots. The snag? There's an 8+ on the cover. I've read them, and I think that they are for advanced 8 year olds, not least because they are partly in English. Not only that - since German children don't routinely learn to read until they get to primary school (it is discouraged before then - don't get me into that though) I wonder who comes up with the German age bands anyway.

#2 Gruesome has just about finished the first Harry Potter (I had to buy her her own copy, it didn't cut the mustard in English unfortunately) but since she's 9 that's not bad going. I haven't looked to see if it is age banded - I only know about #1's books because #2 showed me.

Anyway, that's all apropos of nothing.

The only people who will win in the age banding are the people selling the books, which will mostly be supermarkets. And the publishers and authors of course. One of the arguments the Publishers Association put forward for using banding was that people who want to buy for, say, nephews and nieces, but don't know them as well as the parents do, are confused about what books to buy.

So going to a bookshop and asking the staff is too difficult for them? Asking the parents, or god-forbid the actual child for a few ideas is too much like hard work? Nobody has heard of Book Tokens?



It's a real hobby horse of mine. For no apparent reason!

I signed up, and I agree with you Sho. There are far too many restrictions, guidelines, rules, call them what you will. Common sense and initiative has gone out the window.

Websailor

Well, obviously, troublemakers like you and I will (continue to) flout the age-banding rules

I just find it all... distasteful, actually. Making books in to commerce, whatever next?!

Most definitely

Websailor

By the way what happened to the lovely 'StarAmethyst' I was looking forward to another silver surfer to talk to

If I have missed anything significant, my apologies

Websailor

She was offline a fair bit, but recently she's had an operation on her shoulder and since she now has her arm in a sling she can't really type.

And next Saturday she gets the Gruesome Twosome for two and a half weeks

I'll tell her you were looking out for her though, she'll like that.
(she is, like me, a voracious reader, and I think this age banding is something that might get her up in arms. Or arm.)

I hate to go against the general flow, but, as I understand it, there are two suggested reasons why the age banding has been introduced. One is for reasons for age-appropriate difficulty, and the other relates to content. For example, I was struck recently by the fact that a Bill Bryson book I read contained the phrase 'f***ing c**ts' which would have got any dvd in the world an 18 rating, and yet there was nothing on the book to suggest that it was unsuitable for kids. Which among the parents want to answer the question 'Daddy what's a c*$t?'

Hmm, I get your point, but would a child really be interested in a Bill Bryson book, funny though he is? I must admit I would like to see such unnecessary language deleted, but it goes back to censorship and where you draw the line, or even IF you draw the line.

As for asking Daddy that, most of them already know it seems to me, from regularly travelling on a at school times

Difficult subject.

Websailor

Sho, you are letting your poor Mum have the Gruesome Twosome for two and a half weeks, and her with only one useful arm? Shame on you

Do tell her to come and join us. Surely one arm/hand is enough to do a short note? Lots of people seem to manage with two fingers

Websailor

PS I have just noticed you read To The Far Blue Mountains - Louis L'Amour. I think I read every book that came out at one time.

Websailor

WS - I'm coming to your space (that's not a threat!) to talk about my favourite cowboy writer

The point about age banding, Benjamin (?) is that yes, there is a danger that they might read naughty words.

However, unless and until all books carry a content rating (and I can see that coming) as films do, there is no need to unduly protect children.

I may be old-fashioned about this, but it is a very very rare thing that either of the Gruesome Twosome read a book that i haven't already read.

And, judicious use of bad language can be a good literary tool. And as was mentioned before, you hear worse on the bus and in the playground. Unfortunately.

What is wrong, anyway, with the "Dad/Mum, what's a c@*&?" I always think it's better that parents explain and answer questions rather than have the playground version.

But where would it end? The Narnia books are generally held up as a Good Think for children to read. But they definitely need a content warning, wouldn't you say? What about the His Dark Materials novels? Tracy Beaker? She's a pretty unsavoury character, but she serves a great purpose.

I wouldn't mind if there was a quick blurb to parents/teachers/ whoevers to explain topics and language that might pop up in a teen/children's book. But equally, I'm not against the parents/whoevers actually reading them before passing them on.

Seeing as we mentioned them - I was reading Louis L'Amours (and Georgette Heyer) books from about 9 or 10. There's a lot of killing and fighting in the Cowboy ones (can't remember any of that in the Heyers) but it didn't lead to me turning into some kind of violent, chap-wearing delinquent.

The main problem I see with age banding books is *not* that they will be exposed to bad language, as has already been said, they probably hear worse on the playground/bus.

It's the fact that if books are age banded and children are of a younger reading age than their peers, they may be subject to 'baby' smears by them. It happens already in the 5-7 year olds I work with. 'Oh *you're* only on blue - I'm on purple'

There is really no reason to restrict your children to reading books aimed at their age, unless, of course, you're not prepared to discuss any issues or language raised in them should they ask.

Well alright if nobody things that content is an issue then aren't we arguing to expunge it from videos and computer games as well? I'm not remotely arguing against swearing in books, or Bill Bryson, or indeed parents explaining the meaning of rude words to their kids. I suppose my contention is twofold here, really. Firstly, I'm sure some, if not all, parents would find it useful when choosing books to read to/with their kids at home to have some sort of guidance as to what book would be suitable for the ability of their child. Guven that it's reasonable possible to calculate a child's reading age you can be told by a teacher that your seven year old has a reading age of 11 and adjust your choice of material accordingly. I do see, however, that this needs to be done sensitively to avoid kids with less advanced ability or even tastes being stimatised or bullied.
In terms of contenty, I suppose it depends what you want to screen your child from, and when. I'm sure some parents would happily allow their kids to read whatever, and who's to say they are wrong, but equally some would wish to screen their kids against 'adult' language, or books depicting extreme violence, sexual content or grim stuff such as rape or child abuse, which they might prefer the kids not to find out about just yet. I think the debate about how capable kids are of coping with emotionally complex issues is a pertinent one but it probably helps many parents to know what they are exposing their kids to in advance.

This is a most interesting debate.. and one that doesn't seem to have reached us in Australia.

Does age banding of books imply that *most* (and I don't include most hootooers in that) parents are out of touch with their children's reading abilities/interests? Surely they are the ones who know (or should know) what their kids are reading and what to guide them towards next?

Is this is yet another way of making it okay for parents not to be involved in their children's education (in the widest sense of the word)? If a book has the age-range of your child on it, then it's suitable. If it doesn't, it isn't.

But one size does not fit all. I despair.

Fb

Benjamin, PC and whatever games are already age banded. I have no issue with that because I don't play the things and need some guideline. I figure that if it is 18+ for violence, sex and swearing, my Gruesomes don't need to know it even exists.

I'm not particularly keen on a content warning for books - but I'm sure it's coming.

WE musn't forget that a Bill Bryson book will never be age-banded anyway, the proposal is only for 'children's books'. However, as far as I see it, it's a bit complicated then innit? I read the The Hobbit when I was 6, is that a children's book? Then I read Dune when I was 13. So, where do we go from there?

I think it's a bit ridiculous, we can't compare DVDs to books as a book is something that is for the individual, films can be consumed en masse as such, a book is yours and yours alone. At least, I hate it when someone reads over my shoulder...