h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am awkward socially. I don't know what to say to people. I generally find what other people say interesting, but I don't know what interesting things to say back to them.

I would actually like to have more friends ... over here, as well. I would welcome any advice on how to speak with people. It really is hard for me. In real life I am extremely socially isolated, staying in my house alone most of the time, only going out to my art classes. That is traumatic enough for me. Over here, I also feel very awkward and like an 'outsider'. I just don't know what to do. Should I try harder, or should I just accept that I could never really be at my ease around people, and stop *wanting* to do better socially?

Willem, I am going to give this some thought. If this is something you want then you shouldn't give up on it and there are techniques that would give you more confidence in your social skills.

I hope you don't mind me asking questions but would you mind describing what you find so traumatic about going to your art classes?

I understand that you you would like to have more friends. I am thinking though that the feeling of being socially isolated isn't always just the absence of friends, there are alsorts of different types of social interaction, which is often the starting point for establishing friendships, but in its own right can rewarding. Like being involved in a community project.

So I suppose I am asking what is the discomfort that you feel now, although you have touched on feeling awkward and not knowing what interesting to say back and what sort of situation you would feel most comfortable in as a starting point.

Personally Willem, I'd be falling over myself to be your friend in real life

Peanut

'I generally find what other people say interesting'

That sounds like the making of a great friend.

I wouldn't worry too much about what to say (sounds easy) but start with 'that's really interesting' and follow from there. Probably other people aren't as confident as they seem.

I don't really have any advice for you, Willie. Women like men who listen (and I mean 'listen', not just pretending), and you don't need to try to solve their problems (something men usually feel compelled to do but women often neither need nor want).

hi Willem

take a tip from a social inept....

the 'key' to becoming more socially comfortable is all about finding the *right* friends!

find people who have value and you'll find that just by being in their company - firstly you'll get treated with respect - secondly, what a great role model your new friends will be for you!!

a wise piece of advice from wayback can be paraphrased (loosely!): "you'll be able to discern who has worth, by the value of what they do"

i've only been in hootoo a few months now, but already i can see that there are some people who build others up, are non-judgemental and fun to be with - and there are (a few) others who seem to enjoy putting others down, who look for opportunities to display their greater intelligence, and who i'm content to leave, to do their own thing

so - don't be afraid to look and listen (aka lurking) - to see who has that worth - and who hasn't

the 'right' sort of friends will help you across 'Sociability Bridge' - they'll be happy to let you talk - or just listen - as you wish

they may sometimes invite you to join in with something (because it's nice to be asked) - but they will be fine with a 'not this time thanks' reply

sometimes in life you should just jump into the pool, even though you're in everyday clothes, not swimtogs - it can help to chip away at that shell we all like to hide behind sometimes, a bit too much

if someone gave you a box of fireworks, would you thank them & just put it to one side - or would invite a few other *real* friends round and celebrate life & friendship with a special firework party for your friend who gave you the gift?

Willum, believe it or not, life has given you a box of fireworks - and basically, we're all just hangin' around, hoping we're going to get invited to YOUR party!

you've made a start in already in hootoo - venturing out into a social setting in RL is really just more of the same

if i can do it - you CERTAINLY can!

apologies all - i didn't *intend* for this to turn into a 'sunday sermon'!

*goes & sits in the naughty corner*

Hmm, interesting, what you, Willem, and everyone else is saying.

Yes, I would agree, there's all different types of friendship and ways of setting up social interaction.

I don't know enough about your home social situation to offer deep insights, but I am drawn to respond to your posting.

All I can really do is talk from my own experience.

Its a strange one really, the friend question. I too am an outsider, I find group socialising in the evenings especially difficult, even now in middle age.

I tend to slink away from group situations, because I have a strange shy twist, I am in my own world, and I don't like social rules. I would sooner be an outcast than follow the rules.

Consequenly I often end up pacing the streets alone, Mrs Steppenwolf , (remember the Hermann Hesse book Steppenwolf?) staring at noticeboards, looking in on other people's seeming ease of belonging.

I am happy in my own company though, which is why I like cafes. Alone with my notbook, but with people around. There is a certain poetry to such a state. . Perhaps it is the artist state.

And of course, all the other outsiders are also walking around, a troupe of Steppenwolves. .

Not sure about Hesse's book these days, by the way, , I read it years ago. Its just the image of the lone wolf of the Steppes, which I like.

Paradoxically, though, I do love human company. I know many sweet and deep people who find more trusted friendships with the natural world, like trees and flowers, or maybe their dog or cat, than with humans.

I tend to love deeply, get hurt, , screw up, heal the wounds, love some more. Trust, for me, tends to be there if I can go deep with someone, but also banter. Intensity and laughter.

Someone once said to me that if, over a lifetime, I could count the number of deeply trusted friends in my life on the fingers of one hand, like five, I have done well. I don't know about that .. ... I would like to think I have achieved trust more than five times ... ... hmm

Its weird, I have a very close girlfriend, known her most of my life since we were at school, aged 11. We rarely see each other these days, our lives have gone off at different tangents, and yet we love each other really deeply.

Its interesting to hear people speaking on the subject of friendship. Thanks for opening it up.

Take care, dear Willem, you are lovely

cc

Hey, Willem, what a good question.

My advice (having a personal idea about why this is scary):

1. Listen more than you speak.

2. Don't jump in with an 'answer'. Let the other person develop their theme. Ask questions. (Think of yourself as an interviewer.)

3. Don't tell people too much about yourself until you feel really secure. That may take some time, but then you won't worry so much.

4. When you start to feel uncomfortable, politely say good night and go home.

I hope that's some help.

Willem, I have re-read my post and I think my questions could be quite intrusive and over all I sound like a social worker or some such, I am worried that it comes across as patronising. I'm sorry if that is the case. It wasn't meant that way

Peanut

ach, dinnae fash yersel, hen - ye did awfy fine, lassie!

gie the man a hug and a's weel

I thought your post was great, Peanut.

Friendship is a personal topic in a way, I am enjoying reading all the different aspects, experiences, ideas.

I am always worrying that my postings on hootoo don't convey my intended message. I often regret everything I have written as soon as I have posted, because it is strange sometimes for me to talk through type.

Making friends online isn't a natural habit for me, I don't do it anywhwere else, , but hootoo is kinda special. I have friends here. That's special.

Willem I do feel for you. I have a friend who is just the same and he has a few problems similar to yours. Though he wants to mingle and socialise, he is incapable of doing so and becomes tongue tied.

I am not sure the advice given to people without your problems would be of much use to you but I will have a go.

Though I 'talk' a lot on here I am not very outgoing and the usual round of social events rarely interests me. I found many years ago that starting charity work with like minded people was a great boost to my confidence.

After some years I was able to give talks and mix with people quite easily, but I find people who do voluntary work are a different breed and easier to get on with.

Do you have any charities or voluntary organisations out there? You see that is where we are stuck as we don't know the things that might be available to you.

It takes a great deal of courage to venture out, but you need to forget yourself and concentrate on other people, taking an interest in their lives without being too intrusive in your questioning.

You see here in the UK we all have one topic of conversation to open with and discuss endlessly and that is the weather

At the moment I am seeing very few people, and it seems once a widow you find out who your real friends are and many of mine have not been in touch. Maybe they don't know what to say to me. As you have lost both parents perhaps there is an element of that with people too?

Have you tried to make friends with members of your Art class - your talent is such that I would have thought people would really want to interact with you?

Do you think you have a demeanour that 'repels boarders'? I found that since becoming more outgoing people were nicer, but then I thought, perhaps it is because I am perceived as nicer?

What do you think? It is very hard to open up if you spend so much of your time alone which is an awful shame as you are so articulate on h2g2 and have such a lot to offer.

Websailor

Hey there, Peanut, no there's nothing at all wrong with your questions! In fact I'd like to answer them all. And in a way you've supplied an answer ... like you, I often feel I've said the wrong thing after having said it! So I find myself not saying much.

I wish I could do charity work. But the fact is I need charity work myself. I'm an unemployed paranoid schizophrenic person living alone without knowing how to do that. I don't really make enough money to 'get by', and I have to spend almost every waking moment trying to figure out how to make money, except most of my plans are completely wrong and have no hope of succeeding, and I don't know *which ones* are totally wrong. If I knew that I wouldn't have a problem. I seriously need people to give me practical guidance. My parents used to and now they're not here any more.

I sort of wish that I had friends so that I would have someone who could give me some guidance and good advice. But *nobody* in my real life whom I know, could really do that. I am sort of proud and don't wish anyone to know just how big the trouble is that I'm in. Not to mention that I don't want to be a hassle for anyone.

With the people in my art class ... first of all they are all rich and I'm dirt poor, so at the outset I feel inferior to all of them. And they live in a different world. I can't speak along with them when they speak of experiences I can never share with them. I can't speak about fashions or restaurants or trips to other countries or stuff like that. And then there are things like the way ... you know, they are all nice people, but they have the thing people have over here, they say things that hurt me very badly deep inside, and they don't realise it, and I don't tell them.

I listen, I listen a heck of a lot. I sometimes think I listen too much because I learn more about people than I think they would want me to know. I could tell you psychological stuff about people they don't know themselves. Sometimes I really want to give people advice, but don't think they'd appreciate it. Anyways, the thing is, people volunteer all sorts of information about themselves, but I can't do the same, because I know I won't be accepted for what I really am. Most people I know are 'okay' people, that is to say, in all respects they are acceptable to 'society'. I am in many ways NOT. I am poor, and that's a big thing over here; I have the wrong political and religious views; I'm a vegetarian and consider animals to be people too; and I have a mental illness no-one understands. I've missed out on the 'regular' experiences almost everyone has or had. While they were getting college educations, meeting romantic companions, getting started in life with jobs and careers, I was battling inner demons they could not comprehend. I did not get to do all that stuff that is considered 'normal' and that constitutes much of average people's identities. This makes regular conversation extremely difficult, and I don't really have any hopes that other people could really understand me, or that they would even want to. So while other people can freely talk about themselves, I can't.

So: I listen and I like listening to people most of the time. But ... do I have *friends* if nobody really knows anything about me? The people I am closest to generally don't know a thing about my religious views, my general values in life ... the people in the art class won't be able to tell you anything about me beyond the fact that I am in the art class with them, and perhaps that I know a few things about animals and plants, because sometimes I do speak about that.

The thing is I feel myself wanting to be more social, I do not mind following 'the rules' if those rules make sense to me. But a lot of the 'rules' do not seem to make sense. For instance I cannot really accept the money, power and status worship, I cannot easily accept the intolerance of people of different races, cultures, and religious beliefs. If I was in a society that had more general respect for all people, and more sensible values ... I may be wrong but I honestly think that 'superficial' values are emphasised over 'core' values in my society, and many people - they are nice as they are - but they are missing MUCH of their true potential, they are held back by what I see as a false value system that is very firmly entrenched in society, not to mention all the innocents that are *seriously* hurt, but about that too I must shut my mouth because nobody would be able to understand me. It makes me really sad sometimes, when I see people who are actually good people but they are going along with things that are wrong because they don't know any better.

The thing is I am very intelligent. It's not bragging, it is really so, and I don't mind saying that over here since all of you are also very intelligent. People here generally read a lot, and many aspire to write as well. Most people I know are nowhere near that. I do know a number of intelligent people also. But most intelligent people are rich; I'm not, and it's partly because I don't think in terms of money, or at least I've never learnt to do that, but now I sort of have to. I feel very bad asking anyone for money, but the only way I can make money is by asking people for money for art, or for something else that I can give them, but all the time I feel guilty about that, because one thing I WANT to do is to give to the world and to society with no thought of what I might get back. But if I fully do that I will ruin myself and go down in misery, I'll become a street hobo and die early from starvation and exposure.

I hear you.

Quick post to begin with, I am relieved that my post didn't read wrong Willem and thank you a-l-s and Cactuscafe for your posts they were reassuring while I was waiting for Willem to get back to us

I am thinking about what you have written and will get back to you when I have formed some thoughts into a coherent post

Willem, i'm sure, like your other friends here do, i think you're amazingly brave to open up this discussion and talk so frankly about your situation

i've known folks who have found non-judgemental acceptance and support through spiritual communities (i don't mean spiritism - contacting the dead) - are there any opportunities for you to get involved with a group with similar understandings to your own?

just an idea?


do you mind us all throwing these ideas out into the 'ring'? is it helpful?

peace

Morning Willem

I have been googling and I don't know if you have accessed support groups before or if I am in the right geographical area, I read on your PS you were born in Pretoria but I am not sure where you are living now.

I am thinking that perhaps while you might not want support group meetings this type of organisation could be useful as a 'signpost organisation' to point you in directions you might want to go in.

http://www.supportsabda.co.za/news.htm

sabda is the Schizophenia and Bipolar Disorder Alliance I am thinking this talk was quite timely

TALK BY DR COLINDA LINDE

This was a well attended evening with some really valuable input from Colinda on how to improve social skills. She gave good advice on how to behave in a group situation when one is an outsider. Very interesting. She admitted to being an introvert who uses these skills. Hard to believe this, as she is such an accomplished speaker herself.

You can request a newletter and to go on the mailing list from [email protected]

(I have cut and pasted that just in case my link doesn't work for you)

I am not sure that is the contact details for the same organisation but it is another support group in Pretoria

Pretoria Colleen 012 348 6057 [email protected]

I know you are not comfortable with phones but there is a couple of email addresses there.

I was thinking that could you write an email introducing yourself and ask if they could point you in the right direction, to get some financial and employment advice as this is a stress for you now. Say also that you are looking for avenues to go down to broaden your social horizons.

Right, none of that may be practically useful to you but I think in principle it is an idea think about, if of course you haven't gone down this route yet. To find a mental health organisation or charity to signpost you in the first instance

Last thing for now, it is important that you ask for what you want and need and don't be put off by the word charity, I try to regard them as specialist organisions.

Hmmm, I have a few other things to say but have appointemnts now and don't want to bombard you with pages of Peanut suggestions

all the best

Peanut

Willem, I am afraid that in this world, however much you don't like it - if you don't ask, you don't get. There is no shame in asking for help, and no shame in being poor. Surely there is somewhere in your are where you can go for help and advice. If there is don't be afraid or ashamed, you might be surprised at the outcome.

Underneath the glossy exterior of wealth we are all the same, and have all the same functions to perform Think what they would be like if they suddenly lost their wealth and status- they would cope even less well than you.

Are you still planning to move to your sister's? If not are you able to sell the wonderful plants you produce? And your art is stunning. Anyone would be happy to pay for your pictures and you should be proud and confident in your talent and abilities.

I am sure everyone here would concur that you are clever and intelligent, and that is not a boast on your part, and you have strong views, but sometimes to get on in this world we have to compromise and develop a thick skin.

I find that talking religion and politics can alienate people unless they are of a like mind. I have a problem in my own life regarding religion at the moment. where I will have to keep my mouth firmly shut for fear of alienating certain people. it is the price we pay for socialising and having 'friends' - agreeing to disagree without falling out.

I am sure I am not alone in wishing you were not so far away as there is little we can do but listen and pontificate.

You have my email if you want to chat privately. Use it if you feel the need.

Websailor

Aargh!!! I had just completed a long and gut-wrenching reply and then the site ate my posting! I can't go through all that again! I tried to answer everyone here. This is torture! Please folks, give me time and tomorrow I'll try and reproduce that posting ...

and arghhhhhh ( that is me empathising)

Sometimes it helps to hit the back space to bring your post back. In times when the site is unstable, I usually mark my text and copy it before hitting 'post'.

I'm sorry there don't seem to be intelligent, open-minded persons where you live.