h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

To clarify:

If you have proven that the proof of a statement exists, then you can conclude that the statement is in fact true. However, that isn't the same thing as having the proof of the statement, only having the proof of the proof.

Of course, having proof of the proof logically can be considered "proof" that the statement is correct, but if it isn't a set of arguments that directly leads to the statement, it isn't a "proof" in a mathematical sense.

The word "proof" has a different meaning formally than in everyday English. Depending on which definition you're using, either Moi or Lucinda is correct.

[bows respectfully]

--Caledonian

hang on, you're wrong about fermat's last theorem. In fact, it spawned new fields of mathematics that finally discovered exactly what it looked like until the guy who won the nobel prize for mathematics a couple of years ago (I'll find his name) finally showed that such a solution was in fact possible. (and proved it right)

Fermat wrote a postscript to the effect that he had found a proof for it, and people wondered. But they certainly didn't go off and believe him just based on that. He'd been wrong before. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of a theorem is in the solving.

no, I'm wrong. There is no nobel prize in mathematics. What I do remember, is that he won SOMETHING for his efforts. So I will find out what.
And who, of course.

Andrew Wiles
And he was given a silver plaque by the international congress of mathematicians. (just for the terminally curious among you)

Not to be pointlessly semantic but... what sort of struck me here is that the word 'exist' seems to get tossed around rather casually, but I would expect that a definition of what is meant by the idea of 'existence' is precisely what we are getting at. Anselm would say that asking "Does God exist" is like asking if circles are round.

Asking "what is god" seems even more futile... by the time I have agreed to a definition of God to give the question enough context to be even remotely sensible, I have my answer. Better to ask what the sound of one hand clapping is.

The bible says: If a man lies down by an other man, he is immediately to be killed.

Is that what you want? It can't be misinterpreted. It says: kill every homosexual. Read the bible!

And it says: kill the enemies and people with other believes. You don't believe that? Read it!

Yes you are right, there should be no "interpretations". It should be taken literaly.

KILL!!!

My last posting is somewhat out of order, it is a reply to posting 2, and maybe somewhat angry. Sorry, but it meant it that way.

The suestion: "Better to ask what the sound of one hand clapping is."

The answer: I use it all the time in my music! [URL removed by moderator]

Wonko, of course it could be misinterpreted! Some religous zealout might run amok in a camping site massacreing any men who share a tent... Lying down doesn't automatically equate to sex...

You are right, better close this book away, it contains dangerous stuff. Most off the things which are believed now are even translation errors: Jesus did ot walk on the water, but on a path above the water.

What does it mean for something to exist? Given that we are human beings, we can only experience the world through our senses. What is real to us is merely what our senses tell us (see "The Matrix" ). All "things" are constructs created by our minds to explain what we see. So...

If we can perceive God's actions, then we can understand him. We say God is a thing/force/whatever that does "this", "this" being whatever we perceived.

If we can't perceive God, then he can't exist!

It is NOT true that we can only rely on our senses.

For example, if you hear someone sing, you may me not sure whether its only in your imagination or real. But you can record it on tape, analyse it with a computer and visualize the graphs. And these graphs are not in your imagination, because you probably don't know anything about fourier transformation, frequencies and amplitutes.

Nobody ever recorded an action of god on tape. It is only in the imagination of people.