h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In the original Grimm fairy tale of Snow-White, the wicked stepmother did not fall down a cliff and die. She lived on. When Snow-White married the prince, they invited her to the wedding. They heated up iron slippers in the fire and forced her to put them on and dance until she fell down dead.

Yes I have always found that a very disturbing image - I first came across it when reading a 'modern' interpretation of the story as told from the stepmother's viewpoint. In this version the stepmother was the almost blameless scapegoat who didn't deserve the gruesome fate.

I can't remember who wrote the modern one but numerous other versions exist: http://www.scils.rutgers.edu/~kvander/white10.html

Pimms

Grimm's fairy tales are no different from most traditional fairy tales: they were cautionary tales to educate children about the implications of their actions. Mostly a lot more gruesome (indeed, more grim ) than modern interpretations.

We do molly-coddle children a lot more than folk did before the Victorians came along and invented childhood. Not altogether a good thing IMHO

Fb

Well I never.

Eddie Lenihan the Kerry story-teller says that children simply adore gory tales, the more violent the better.

So when did fairies become nice? Or religion for that matter?

Baba Yaga had an iron tongue and iron teeth made for her A823402. Vasilisa's stepmother and stepsisters were burned to a crisp by the light from the skull in which she brought home the fire. Cruel people are cruelly punished: they get what they give out.

Oh, yes, and Baba Yaga eats her own daughter in mistake for her intended victim.

Of course, there are the tales of the Red Shoes (a somewhat curtailed version is here: http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.1/bookid.109/sec.18/) and the Twelve Dancing Princesses http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/twelvedancing/ - both of which feature shoes which force the wearer to dance.

Here's an annotated version of Snow White http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/sevendwarfs/index.html

We've hit a nerve here with ZSF Is there an entry here for you???

It was the Victorians what done it Recumbentman. They invented childhood. Prior to that, children weren't sheltered from evil, or sex, or politics, or religion, or life. They have a lot to answer for...


Fb

Would this be a good time to share the legend of Cinderella's glass slipper?

B

I've loved fairy stories for years, Fb. I had books of them, long before the advent of little .

The glass slipper is just a mistranslation from the original French, Master B . It was originally a fur slipper - compare the French for fur (ver) and glass (verre).

Yes, and in the original story (which was translated into French), do you really think all the stuff about the prince trying on Cinderella's - ahem - 'fur slipper', had anything to do with shoes?

B

As far as doing an entry is concerned, Fragilis did an entry a while ago. I made a comment on it about the teaching aspect of fairy tales, F52991?thread=143857&latest=1.

I've done the one on Baba Yaga. Are you suggesting one about Snow White or about the 'older' aspects of the fairy stories?

Well, if you look at the annotated bit to Snow White, it did say that slippers were symbols of sexuality. You tell me, Master B!

Then again, you will remember how the Prince woke Sleeping Beauty originally! (Clue: not with a kiss!)

It's probably better not to speculate what was so short about the seven dwarves, in that case.

B

Here's a quote about 'older versions' of the tales:

The older versions of the tales contain adult content which has been edited, glossed over, or deleted over the years, primarily sex, incest, murder, and cannibalism to name a few. Yes, Sleeping Beauty is raped while she sleeps. Donkeyskin's father is incestuous. Rapunzel has premarital sex. Cinderella is a murderess. Many of these early variants of familiar tales are found in Giambattista Basile's Il Pentamerone. Others were the early versions collected by the Brothers Grimm before they decided to edit the stories for younger audiences.

Dwarfs: Dwarfs in symbology represent the underdeveloped and the unformed. They are pre-adolescent and not developed sexually. They live an immature and pre-individualistic form of existence that Snow White must transcend. (In the original story they are not individualised and Walt Disney by giving them names and personalities has destroyed their meaning in the story.) The dwarfs are also close to the earth (they mine for gold which is the incorruptible metal) and they represent the unconscious and amoral forces of nature.

Dirty little buggers!

B

1918 translation as served up by National Geographic:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/grimm/snow_white.html

Red hot shoes as symbols of femininity?