h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

That's a good point, I don't think we will agree on this one though, we will just go round in circles.
But I don't have to deal with them, except when I see them when I am driving late at night. Considering I eat other animals, I shouldn't be preaching, and if I had brought a soapbox in with me, I would be getting off it about now.

*goof also gets off his soapbox*

Let's wander over to the Drinks Cabinet for a beer.
Coming Gandalf?

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Nice to read some well balanced comments on the subject - it normally results in vitriol from both sides of the fence.

I suspect that one reason for the anger against fox-hunting is, as you suggest, social - many people just don't like to see others having fun; I suspect that if ratcatchers were replaced by people catching/killing rats for sport, there would be a public outcry. After all, rats are cuddly little creatures with intelligence and pretty little eyes etc!



Good points about countryside management - it is only because of field sports such as grouse shooting that many areas of moorland are not inhabited by DIY stores.

Countryside management OK!!
Exterminating the Fox.......NO!!!!!!!!!!!

'G'

No one said we wanted the foxes to be "Exterminated" (as in wiped out). We (as in I) want the population to have enough of a challange to be healthy.
"If it wasn't for the Lions the Gazelle would be a Donkey."

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I appear to have opened a Pandora's box here.
However, if anyone wishes to cobble together my thoughts, as well as all the other comments, they are quite welcome to do so, as long as I am noted, and Oscar Wilde's attitude is also mentioned ("The English Country Gentleman galloping after the fox; The Unspeakable in full persuit of the uneatable")
(Sorry, you countryfolk, but it is my view!!)

'G'

First, one very small point -- it is "contentiously", not "contenciously".

You said: "The Huntsmen (and women)dress up in red coats, get on a horse, release a pack of dogs, and go charging after the fox. When the dogs catch the fox, the 'hunters' just stand around while the fox is torn to pieces."

Several things. The tone of this passage betrays more how you feel about the red coats and the hunters inside them than it does about the fox, who is actually in little bloody rags long before the Chief Huntsman and Master of Hounds even arrive. You make it sound like a cocktail party with torture on the side. Ees very tiny fox versus 20 to 70 hounds and does not take long.

But you want to convey an image of cruel snobs in red coats, don't you? I think you know very little about fox hunting and the economy that is sustained by it. I'm speaking as one who worked as a groom for an eventing yard (a stable is called a yard. Eventing is an equine sport involving cross-country, show jumping and dressage.) and saw for herself what a difference it made in horses that were taken on hunts. I never hunted, but i also saw the difference it made in riders who had to deal with real-time cross terrain work, as opposed to the artificial and park like cross-country courses you find in eventing.

But we were talking about the fox. Weren't we?

The people in red coats are extraordinarily vehement about how animals should be treated. They do not habitually shred small animals before breakfast every morning. We have them to thank for the vigor of modern dog breeds and the preservation of the arts of equitation -- god forbid we should forget how to handle horses in weird environments just as the world runs out of hydro-carbons! But horses cost money, especially in England, and so they become associated with "class" stuff, too.

I am against cruelty to domestic animals or any captive creature. But the natural state of the wild animal is anxiety, and its natural demise is either bloody or brutish, its life always short. What are you legislating for with this proposed ban on hunting? For foxes to die in bed with their relatives at their side?

As Dr. Goof Lithium has pointed out, there is a balance involved here. I don't doubt the sincerity of your motives, but I wonder whether you have thought it through. That's not intended as an insult. I really think you ought to do more research on fox-hunting, the ritual.

Oh, and only the men wear pink coats (they look red, they are called pink). Don't forget to look into the lore about collars.

To add an additional angle, l think l can provide some perspective, having myself foxhunted before.

l have been on multiple hunts, with two separate packs (located in the eastern US), and never have l seen a fox killed. Here, with such urbanisation and sprawl, foxes are rare, and far too precious to destroy. The hunters are not driven by blood; in fact, to a degree, the fox has nothing to do with it.

A hunt is a chance to enjoy a good ride through good country with friends. The foxes are regarded with great respect, when we see them; one can have a full day's hunt and not even catch the trail of a fox. When one does, however, the excitement is all in the chase, not in the killing, and the hunt has always halted before the fox has been caught. On the occasions where they are seen, most of the field only wants a glimpse of the fox, and l think nearly all of them would be aghast at the notion of letting it be shredded.

This is not to speak of various drag-hunts, and other methods available to the hunting enthusiast. This is a thorny issue, l understand, but it must be said that most hunters are dedicated animal lovers, as foreign an idea as that may seem. T rying outright to ban the sport, l fear, will only help bring about the eventual collapse of the horse industry as a whole; after hunting goes, will the focus switch to the "cruelty" inherent in racing or riding a horse? And if so, what will happen to the many, many domesticated horses in the world, who no longer can be ridden, but are tame and can't be freed? l hate to use the logic of gun-lobbyists complaining about increaced firearms-regulation, but to a point it seems a natural progression.