h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Pidgins and Creoles - A58281203
Author: Silly Willy - Archangel, PS of Silly Names, Keeper of Green - U158291

This entry A58281203 is based on this original A52091651 which was placed in the Flea Market.

Original Peer Review F13651875?thread=6616824 Flea Market Thread F74125?thread=6900577

I have tried to leave this in the original academic style but with a bit of tidying and clarification.

I welcome any advice or feedback

good rescue!

reminder to self to re-read at a more sensible time of day

Hi, brave person who frequents flea markets !

This remains an interesting read and has benefitted from the style changes. I've also taken this opportunity to give it a more thorough reading.



I can't help thinking that the 2nd paragraph needs reworking in some way.... can't put my finger on it.

"the Basque-lexifier4 pidgin of Iceland and the Basque-Algonquian pidgins in contacts between Europeans and Indians;" this doesn't read well in my opinion. As this is part of a list of examples, I wonder whether 2 examples are needed here (your choice).
Perhaps just making it clearer that 2 Basque examples are provided, eg "the Basque-lexifier4 pidgin of Iceland and *also* the Basque-Algonquian pidgins *used* in contacts between ......"
Note that the 'Indians' in this case are some of the original inhabitants of Canada.


"Creoles are languages which, originally having been pidgins, [....]. Creoles *generally* do not have an established library of written language ...."
I'm not sure when 'generally' kicks in and have no reason to doubt that statement; on the other hand, there are lots of writings in Creole (certainly in French Creole since the 1950-60s) and I think perhaps it could be mentioned. Perhaps in the form of a footnote, eg 28 Oct is International Creole day.

Good luck with the entry

Hello, thanks for the help!

I have decided to change the paragraph as you suggested to "the Basque-lexifier4 pidgin of Iceland and also the Basque-Algonquian pidgins used in contacts between Europeans and Indians;"

What is a more politically sensitive term than Indians? Inuit?

I agree with you that 'generally' weakens that paragraph so I have changed it to this:

"New creoles generally do not have an established library of written language and so are often influenced by the standard, that is why they tend to change frequently and rapidly. Over time this changes as a rich literary history develops - the French Creole is an example of this."

And I've added this further down:

"In 1983, linguists who themselves had a creole as their first language, formed an annual International Creole Day on the 28th October."

According to what i just checked, they were Algonquian tribes involved namely Montagnais-Innu and Micmac (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_peoples).

I think 'certain Algonquian tribespeople' should cover 'Indians'.
[Other probable - but not certain - speakers were Inuits, Iroquois and Abenakis (sp?)]

The rest looks good to me. Good luck with this entry

Sorry, I'm nitpicking now. Maybe 'French Creole is an example' rather than '*the* French Creole...' because there are several types, although I noticed that the English wiki uses FC as a plural noun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_creole

*throws away nit comb*

Excellent rescue, Silly Willy. The Flea Market is a barely explored treasure trove of stuff like this that could easily grace the Edited Guide. Very pleased. Good luck with this in Peer Review.

Glad to see this back, and in much better shape The topic is a good one, but the original version entry needed far more work on it than it was reasonable for a subbie to do.

Well done

Thanks everyone!

Updated again with Not-so-bald-eagle's feedback

*Devastated at seeing Silly Willy again.*

You edited my first ever entry!!

If you want to get a corner in the Creole market, there's this as well A51968794 "Creole – more than a language phenomenon"

Still thinking about "A creole can be described as a second generation pidgin - where a new generation of people grow up with the pidgin as their first language."
(I think it's 2nd generation quickly followed by new generation that jars with me)

What about "When pidgin starts to be used beyond the initial needs and children grow up speaking it as a first language, in other words second-generation pidgin, it becomes Creole."
or
"When pidgin starts to be used in the home and children grow up speaking it as a first language, [in other words second-generation pidgin,] it becomes Creole."

My subjective opinion is: I prefer the second version. To me, the adjectival use of "second generation" infers a dilution of something. In this case, it will strengthen the language, when people are having to apply it do all aspects of every day life.

Hello TC!!

I subbed your yummy German Bread entry - good times

This entry is very interesting. Can't add anything to the content, because I know nothing about it. But we did recently have an entry about one particular creole here in PR, as Eagle mentioned above. The two complement each other very well!

Delighted at seeing Silly Willy again

and nothing else to add

GB aka BG

Thanks GB

I'm going to consider this article done then

Not that I'm needed, but I concur that this is a good rescue and now complete. Anything can be improved and I don't like this site's limitations on Entry-size, but
/ for the work of rescue and the Entry itself combined.
The way things are filled out here is with many small bites. If you have an interest in expanding on this general subject matter with other Entries, but don't want to do it alone, I'm available for both research and writing.

Great stuff. We'll get started on getting this in the Guide - apologies for the delay, we're going to try to start picking these up more quickly from now on.

Cheers
h2g2Eds