h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Writing Signs - A28839630
Author: TRiG (Ireland) Concerned citizen - U612575

There are still some blanks to be filled in, but I thought it was time to take this out of the Writing Workshop.

TRiG.

For a discussion of the blanks yet to be filled, see F8639293?thread=4756674 post 11.

TRiG.

Hey TriG

I only read the entry of your entry and then decided to do some research on the Danish? linguist - or rather the linguist who wrote in Danish.

I couldn't find anything on Danish sites and sent a question to the linguistic department at Århus University yesterday (a Sunday), and the head of the department answered at 01:00 last night (this morning).

"Lars von der Lieth wrote about Danish sign language in 1967, which is early - but William Stokoe wrote his book in 1960.
Ben Tervoort wrote about the Netherlandish sign language in the 1960ies.
This bibliografie: http://www.sign-lang.uni-hamburg.de/bibweb/ doesn't work right now, but might show it. The person who could possibly answer is Elisabeth Engberg-Pedersen from Copenhagen University."

The link worked this morning - and is in English. I haven't got time to investigate further before this afternoon.

I'll try Elisabeth later today.

My mother said she has notes on that and will look them up for me. But I think you're right that he was Dutch, not Danish. The name Tervoort looks familliar.

TRiG.

I have just had an answer from the linguist at Copenhagen University whom two linguists refer to as the expert in Denmark:

She writes:

"I cannot guess at whom the writer means, but anyway it seems superficial to write that 'one single person proved that signed languages are full languages' - whether it is Stokoe or a Dane.

The Danish priest for the deaf, Johannes Jørgensen, in 1910 wrote a very good little pamphlet about Danish sign language, and a Swede, O. Oesterberg, wrote a pamphlet about Swedish sign language in 1916. But did they prove anything?

I don't evaluate it so. I actually do not think that it can be proven (that sign language is a full language), but one can set different criteria for, what one understands by a 'natural language', and then investigate into what extent sign language fullfil those criteria".

(I have translated from Danish into English - I hope it makes sense).

Does it help you?

Actually I'm impressed that three university people take out time to answer a question from a person whom they do not know, to aid with a guide entry of a site they don't know.

Engberg-Pedersen. I hadn't noticed the name last time, being in a bit of a hurry. Yes, she is an expert. I've read some of her book Space in Danish Sign Language. (My mother had it out of the college library last year. Actually, it was my mother who recognised the name just now, though 'twas I who recalled the title of her book.)

She's probably right (she should know). I was just going on things I'd picked up from reading my mother's lecturers' handouts and notes. Mammy can't find the name of the chap she was thinking of, but we're fairly sure it was the Dutch chap, Tervoort.

Taking into account what Engberg-Pedersen says, and also what kea posted while the Entry was in the Writing Workshop, I'm going to have to rewrite the introduction altogether. Give me some time to thing about this.

And thanks very much for the work you've put in for me.

TRiG.

It's my pleasure. I like to find out - facts - and what makes people do what they do.

Are you still thinking TRiG.

He is, I can hear it from here

Just give us a sign TRiG.

Sorry about that. I've finally got around to putting in a proper introduction. Glad I've done that. It's been bugging me.

There's a little more to do on Sutton SignWriting (I still have far more information on Sutton herself than on her system), but the Entry is taking a proper shape.

Can anyone suggest some good links to add?

TRiG.

Hey, great entry

Links? - well, for an easy one, how about Galludet University

http://www.gallaudet.edu/

>>developped among Trappist<<
you didn't do this on purpose, did you?

Of all the methods, the Sutton method is the most intriguing to me - and I like your wrap-up sentence.

I'll read over this again this evening with a little more care.

I will also see if I can navigate through the Sutton web page see where the primer is buried - it's fascinating, but at first glance I didn't find the brief description with an example that I would have wanted.

back soon.

I always write developped. Fixed now.

And I've added a link to Gallaudet University, and fixed the spelling from Galludet.

TRiG.

I found the title misleading - I expected something about shop & road signs etc! How about 'Transcribing sign language'?

Perhaps one or two examples would be helpful?

Are you still on this TRiG ... you need to find that date I think.

Any sign of this getting finished TRiG

Your Guide Entry has just been picked from Peer Review by one of our Scouts, and is now heading off into the Editorial Process, which ends with publication in the Edited Guide. We've therefore moved this Review Conversation out of Peer Review and to the entry itself.

If you'd like to know what happens now, check out the page on 'What Happens after your Entry has been Recommended?' at EditedGuide-Process. We hope this explains everything.

Thanks for contributing to the Edited Guide!

There was something I meant to change in this, but I've forgotten what it was. I'll have to reread it.

TRiG.

Trig,

I've been given this to sub, but you're quite plainly not finished with the Entry just yet, if you want to give me all the details you want changed I can change this Scouted version into something complete and you're happy with.



Matt