h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I need advice, and being that it's 4am in California and there's no way I could call anyone at this hour, I decided to ask here.

First the situation, then the question.

Situation: My boyfriend D was taking one of those stupid tests at thespark.com, and I was shoulder-surfing (I've asked if he minds; he says he doesn't). Suddenly, he seemed to linger on a question for a ridiculous amount of time. I got the feeling he was stalling, so I looked ahead at the next question, which asked how many people he'd had sex with. I realized he didn't want me to see the answer to the question, so I told him I wouldn't watch over his shoulder anymore. He told me he didn't care (and naturally I kept watching anyway, to see what he was hiding). He finished the rest of the page as fast as he could and clicked the next button, but I had already seen his answer.

He had typed in 5. I had thought the total was 3. I confronted him, and now we're both upset.

The question:
Should I be bothered by this? Well, no, I take that back, as I'm already bothered by this. I guess the real question is how I should feel about/deal with this. I feel like he lied to me, as I consider avoiding the whole truth tantamount to lying. He defended himself with the infamous "you didn't ask" excuse, but I think that's something I have a right to know, as I've been sleeping with him for the last 4 months.

Any thoughts?

My scattered thoughts:

His "you didn't ask" excuse does have some validity. If it was important for you to know, you *should* have asked.

Personally, yes, that's the kind of info I would want to know before hopping in the sack with someone. And because it's the kind of info *I* would want to know, I'd share my own info with the other person without being prompted for it. On the other hand, I wouldn't jump to the assumption that just because I think such knowledge is important, so does he -- so I wouldn't be upset if I had to ask bluntly to get the info. If the guy outright lied or evaded my blunt question, that would be grounds for backing off -- if, on the other hand, I never asked and the guy didn't volunteer the complete info, I wouldn't feel like I had grounds for being peeved with him. I'd have grounds for being peeved with myself, for not asking, but I don't (at this point in my life) expect a guy to meet all my needs without me telling him what they are. (This, BTW, was something that took me a few years to get a grasp on -- for awhile, I felt that a guy was a less than perfect boyfriend if he didn't anticipate all my needs and fulfill them without being asked. But because I think we tend to assume that the other person wants what we want, and that isn't always the case, this doesn't work in real life.)

If I don't feel comfortable asking a particular guy for that info (or with his response, for that matter), then I take that as a sign that I shouldn't be hopping in the sack with him.

On the other hand, this whole '5 vs. 3' thing suggests that (at least from your perspective) there might have been some deception going on. If he purposely led you to think that the '3' was the sum total, then yes, I'd be peeved. On the other hand, if he had only mentioned 3, but hadn't suggested that was the sum of his experience, I don't know that I'd blame him. I'd guess that most adults have sexual experiences that simply aren't worth mentioning in retrospect...

The fact that he was reluctant for you to see the number suggests to me that he either

1) Knows that's he has been deceiving you about the number, or
2) Realizes that it's information you would be upset about learning (especially in that format)

From the limited info we have here, I'd lean towards the more charitable #2. If it was #1, he probably would have just lied on the survey, right?

Don't know how helpful this was, though.

Hope things are looking better now that it's morning....


Mikey

thanks, mikey. actually, this helped a lot. i think you're right... now i just have to go talk to him and try and patch things up.

*sigh*

not a fun task.

thank you. it's good to know that i can find good advice when it's needed.

the past is the past does it matter?
the fact that he lied about it may be a matter of concern but if he did it was probably with good intent.
I’d let this one go. I make a point of not asking or that sort of question unless it is particularly relevant (I have a couple of ex’s that I’m still good friends with and to save possible embarrassment I don’t keep the past secret).

my advice let go and move on

3rd line of my last post should read
"I make a point of not asking or answering that sort of question"

While I don't expect all the nitty details from a newish boyfriend, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know some vague generalities. It's not about curiosity or nosiness, it's about utility -- is this someone I need to treat like a slightly nervous virgin, or is this someone I need to accompany to the clinic for some joint STD testing? Is this someone who has a history of being monogamous, or who has a history of being a jumping bean?

Pretty vital info to know, especially from a girl's perspective. Some of the nastier STDs cause no symptoms at all in men, but are quite harmful to women. And condoms aren't equally effective for all STDs.


Mikey

The fact that he hid it, or thought he had cause to hide it, is bad. He *could* have just lied on the spark survey...maybe he didn't know how many you thought he'd slept with? Maybe he was embarrassed about there being 5?

i talked to him this afternoon, and i asked him why he "misled me"... he said "i don't know". this worries me. an "i thought you would be mad" or an "i was embarassed" would have made sense. "i don't know" implies that he lied for no good reason, or that he didn't want me to know his reason, and that's not good. i don't want to wake up one morning with an itching sensation and discover that i've somehow contracted a nasty STD and am now sterile. i'd like to think that if he had something, he'd have warned me before we started having sex... but now i really have to wonder. i guess we're going to have to discuss this again...

i also asked him if he wanted to say anything, hoping that maybe he'd want to explain, or clarify, but no. he had nothing to say. guess it's not important to him...

or it might imply he's still embarrassed.
(I'm not trying to defend him, that's his job, I'm just trying to make sure you looked at all the options)
as I said I don't thing the number thing is important (trust me, age gives you a bit of perspective on that one (although as someone else stated some vague details about recent stuff could well be important)) but the lying thing could well be important, without trust a relationship is nothing.

Just in case you didn't know, let me reiterate something -- most guys with STDs *don't know* they have them (this is especially the case with college-ages guys). Many of the garden-variety STDs don't cause symptoms in the guys, but they can still transmit them to the girls. And some STDs don't cause noticeable symptoms in girls, but can still cause permanent damage down the road.

If you're worried about this at all, Planned Parenthood does a really good job of testing you for everything without making you feel bad about it, and they're confidential and relatively cheap. They even encourage people to go in with their partners/significant others, so that they can both get tested together.

I'm sorry he didn't respond so well to the discussion -- do you think he was feeling defensive, or maybe embarassed? Or did he just not see it as an important issue? (Which is a pretty common sentiment among young men).


Mikey

possibly all of the above, mikey.

i went to the gyno after we first started, but now it looks like i should think about going again. maybe i'll drag him along too, to show him what happens when i find out he's been lying.

i'm trying to consider all the possibilities, happy, as i don't want to overreact, but it's hard. every time i look at him now, it's like he's got tally marks tattooed on his forehead.

Hey, sea. Was worrying about you, and thought I'd drop by and ask how things are going.


Mikey

sea: Is this still ongoing? I think it's silly to think about a person's past too much. Just be glad you're the one getting it now.

If you're worried about the possibility of STDs, make him give blood. They test for that stuff and notify you if they find anything. I met my wife when we worked together, and she roped me into donating blood at our annual blood drive before we became romantically involved, and I swear I could see the look of relief on her face when I did it.

As for "I don't know," that's a child's answer for when they think they did something for really silly, indefensible reasons, or they think you won't like the answer. You should smack him upside the head for being childish.

Mikey: The "garden variety" STDs have painful, obvious, or painfully obvious symptoms in the male, but not necessarily the female. But perhaps we have a different definition of "garden variety."

Sorry, Blatherskite, but a lot of your info on STDs is a little off base.

The vast majority of STDs will not be detected via a blood test when donating blood. They will look for HIV and hepatitis via blood work, but they won't pick up things like chlamydia, gonorrhea, genital warts, herpes, chancroid, etc. They're only looking for diseases that you can transmit via blood, and most STDs can't be transmitted that way.

Garden variety STDs include:

Trichomoniasis is a protozoal infection. Men almost never have symptoms, but can easily pass the infection between different women.

Bacterial vaginosis is not something men are capable of having symptoms of, but they are capable of transmitting the infection between women.

Human papillomavirus -- causes genital warts in both men and women, but causes *cancer* only in women.

The only garden variety STDs I know of that is more likely to be symptomatic in men than in women are chlamydia and gonorrhea -- and yet for both the long-term impact of an infection is much worse for women, as the association with infertility is much higher, it can cause pelvic inflammatory disease, and it can lead to tubal pregnancies as well.

Mikey

"The vast majority of STDs will not be detected via a blood test when donating blood. They will look for HIV and hepatitis via blood work, but they won't pick up things like chlamydia, gonorrhea, genital warts, herpes, chancroid, etc. They're only looking for diseases that you can transmit via blood, and most STDs can't be transmitted that way." - Chlamydia and gonorrhea cause painful urination in males, so those are painfully obvious. Genital warts and chancres are visually obvious... same for papillomavirus. Herpes are less obvious, but only because they can come and go... but he'd still have to know about it.

That leaves us trichomoniasis and vaginosis.

Most women experience obvious symptoms of trichomoniasis, or it can be detected by pelvic examination, which women should be getting periodically, as I understand. It's easily cured by a single oral dose of a prescription drug.

Bacterial vaginosis is not an STD. Although it is more common in women who are sexually active, it is not transmitted via copulation. The natural flora in the vagina includes bacteria and yeasts, and they balance each other. When the yeasts begin overpowering the bacteria (due to taking an antibiotic to treat another condition, for instance) you get a yeast infection. When the bacteria (particularly the anaerobes, which are not the "good" bacteria) begin overpowering the yeasts, you get bacterial vaginosis. It causes a discharge, so sea would know if she has it.

Sorry, Mikey, but I still don't see where the advice I gave is bad.

Chlamydia and gonorrhea cause painful urination in *some* males, not all, by a long shot. While men are more likely than women to be symptomatic for these two, there are still a decent chunk of men who have these infections with no symptoms whatsoever. And people are often infectious before the symptoms have occurred, even in those who will be symptomatic eventually.

Genital warts are not always as obvious as you might think, especially in college aged men who are not well educated about the symptoms of STDs and so don't know what to be looking for. Same thing goes for herpes -- a decent chunk of infected young men don't know they're infected in the early stages, even though they can still be contagious.

And yes, bacterial vaginosis CAN be sexually transmitted, when a bacteria that is not normal microflora is involved.

"Not much is known about how women get BV (bacterial vaginosis)... It is not clear what role sexual activity plays in the development of BV" - CDC

I do stand corrected on gonorrhea and chlamydia. While a very small percentage of males are asymptomatic for gonorrhea, the CDC says around 50% can be asymptomatic for chlamydia.

As for the visually obvious diseases, I find it hard to believe that the majority of college-aged men who are sexually active don't at least suspect something when a strange growth appears on their nether regions... and that the women are ignoring them completely.

You'd be surprised at how many 18 and 19 and even 20 year old guys will insist -- it's just a pimple! or a blister! or eczema! *sigh*

There's a study out there somewhere on women who test positive for human papillomavirus -- a pretty large proportion were absolutely convinced they'd never had sexual contact with a partner who had warts. It could be that these were "one night stands" and the woman simply wasn't paying that much attention, but the warts can definitely appear in areas where few women are apt to look.

None of these are "majority" situations -- but it doesn't take a "majority" to convince me that I'd want far more than a blood test to convince me that my partner was clear of STDs. The long-term consequences and sequelae for women are just too severe to be gambling with.

How close are we to the following scenario?:

Dude: Hi, my name is Dude. Would you like to go out for coffee sometime?

Dudette: Sure, I'll be glad to. Here's the number for my doctor. He'll need to draw fluids and perform a rectal/scrotal examination. Bring the results in a sealed envelope, along with a detailed sexual history: dates, times, names, positions, witnesses, blood toxicology states, and all available videographic evidence. If you can have all that ready by Friday, I get off work at 2...



If sea has been sleeping with this guy for 4 months (at time of posting), I'm sure she's had the opportunity to inspect him. And I really don't see how 5 partners makes him any likelier to be infected than when she knew he'd had 3. This is more about psychological and trust issues than it is about medical.

Not that it hasn't been a nice argument...

wow!

since the beginning of this forum, i've been to the gyno again. they haven't called me with any worrisome results, so i'm good.

i'm not worrying too much anymore about his history... it's still a sensitive subject, but i'm not obsessing. i'm more worried about when he's going to grow up.

what you said about "i don't know" being a child's answer... that rings completely true. he hasn't quite grown up yet, and i'm wondering if he's going to make it on his own. we're considering moving in together in june when our current leases are up, but i have to wonder... will he be able to balance out his finances? as it is, he can hardly pay rent......

ah well. that's something i'll no doubt have to give him a hand with. you'd think that someone as good at math as he is would be able to do a simple budget.... *rolls eyes*