h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

June 18, 2000

A day after celebrating my 31st birthday with Yanjing Beer and Lazi Jiding with my fellow Beijing Daxue students, I happened upon the ongoing conversation about "Handy Mandarin Phrases". I hope to write something a bit more detailed soon, but for now, I just want to jot down a couple of thoughts and observations.
First, tones. It seems inportant to not the infamous "Half-third tone", which simple means that whenever two third tones occur together, the first of the third tones changes (called tone Sandhi) to a "half third"- only the initial downward dip is made; the following rise is left off. This makes pronunciation much, much easier and also makes what you say much more easily understood.
Second, Romanization. There are many romanization schemes out there, the most widely used are Pinyin (Mainly PRC) and Wade-Giles (mainly Taiwan). It seems that most readers are using Wade, but I favor the Pinyin system (used by the author of the "Mandarin Phrases" author). Despite all the xes, js, and qs, it seems to me that it more closely approximantes actual pronunciation, and without all those messy apostrophes. Also, using the numerals 1-4 after each syllable to denote the tone. This is a handy way when you are writing in a non-character-supporting environment. Example: rong2yi4 ("easy".)
Third, the phrases themselves. Yes, "Mei (you) guanxi" is still in common use- in fact, it is indispensable. Perhaps the next most useful phrase is "Mei Banfa (Roughly: "It can't be done.") I hope to contribute more phrases in the future, but I'll put some thought into the list before writing. Of interest, I am sure, are tech/ computing phrases.
That's it for now, please write your thoughts and requests for phrases.

MH, please don't feel compelled to answer until after you've hurdled through your exams, but I have two questions.

First, if the 4 main tones are denoted by numbers 1 to 4, is 1 higher or lower than 4?

Second: how would you express "Digital Village"? On my home page you'll see a copy of a scroll I did for Courtesy38's teahouse. I have a book of basic Chinese calligraphy, from which I lifted the ideographs for "spirit(ghost)" and "village" -- the third thing is a spoof of the logo of h2g2's parent company, TDV and can be ignored . While I like the wordplay of calling this site a village of ghosts, or virtual entities, I am curious as to how the Chinese express a concept like "digital".

Dear Lil:

I like your translation for "electronic village", but I think Chinese people might find it a bit scary; ghosts to them are unhappy ancestors who hang around to remind them what unfilial sons and daughters they've been. If you still want to use an word that connotes "soul" or "spirit", then try ling3 or hun1. I am so sorry that I can't send the characters directly- this is a problem we need to work on!
The Chinese themselves use "dian4 cun1" or "dian4zi cun1", with the former being the most popular. "dian4zi" means "electron/ electronic", and "cun1" means village. It's that simple, and "dian4zi" is often just shortened to "dian4". If you can get to a an English/ Chinese dictionary, you can find these characters in no time; "cun1" will be given as a definitionfor "village", and if your dictionary is old, it may not have electronic terminology. So look up "telephone", and the first character for telephone ("dian4hua4") is the "dian4" that you are looking for!
Sorry for such a detailed explanation, and I am sorry that the Chinese term lacks the poetry of yours. *Sigh*, so much of the beauty of the Chinese language is being modernized away!

Dear Lil:

I like your translation for "electronic village", but I think Chinese people might find it a bit scary; ghosts to them are unhappy ancestors who hang around to remind them what unfilial sons and daughters they've been. If you still want to use an word that connotes "soul" or "spirit", then try ling3 or hun1. I am so sorry that I can't send the characters directly- this is a problem we need to work on!
The Chinese themselves use "dian4 cun1" or "dian4zi cun1", with the former being the most popular. "dian4zi" means "electron/ electronic", and "cun1" means village. It's that simple, and "dian4zi" is often just shortened to "dian4". If you can get to a an English/ Chinese dictionary, you can find these characters in no time; "cun1" will be given as a definitionfor "village", and if your dictionary is old, it may not have electronic terminology. So look up "telephone", and the first character for telephone ("dian4hua4") is the "dian4" that you are looking for!
Sorry for such a detailed explanation, and I am sorry that the Chinese term lacks the poetry of yours. *Sigh*, so much of the beauty of the Chinese language is being modernized away!
As for the tones, I can explain that a bit more easily. The First tone in Mandarin (called Yin1 Ping2) is high and level. If you create a scale 1-5, with 5 being your highest comfortable speaking voice, and 1 being the lowest, then all the tones can be explained like this:
First Tone: 55 (that is, starts high, and continues at the same level)
Second Tone: 35 (starts in middle register and continues up)
Third Tone: 214 (starts mid-low. falls, then rises)
Fourth Tone: 51 (starts high and drops rapidly)

The first tone is quite sing-song, the second sounds like "huh?" when you are surprised or skeptical, the third is pretty unique and takes a bit longer to pronounce (that's why we have the "half-third"- it makes life easier), and the fourth sounds like the "no!" you say to a child playing around a hot stove. It doesn't need to sound harsh; you just want the tone to drop as quickly as when your are adamant about something.

So remember that when you see the tones listed as 1-4, they are not giving relative values. These tones have "contours", the begin and end ad different registers- except for the first tone, that is. by the way Beijingers are proud of their high, clear first tones, and it is a mark of a good accent. Foreigners tend to have trouble with the third tone, and a surprising number of people (myself included, sadly) sometimes mix up the second and fourth tones, either is speaking or listening.

Just in case you're curious, Cantonese (Yue4) has 8 tones, or 9 if you count the unstressed word as a separate tone (Mandarin has this as well.) A former professor of mine (a dialectologist) once described a dialect spoken in Fu2jian4 spoken by about 500 people. This dialect had an incredible *24 tones* (!!!), including a so-called "creaky-voice tone" that sounded like a raspy old man! This lecture had the desired effect; thereafter I considered myself lucky to be studying the "simple" Mandarin!!

By the way, thanks about the concern over exams. Actually, I take my breaks from the books at this internet cafe (called Fei1Yu3- "Flying through Space"), so if I am only too glad to chat for a bit.

I should also mention that I will soon be leaving China (I have been here for a year and a half), but first I will be travelling to Japan, homeland of my fiancee (she is also studying Chinese here). One major attraction for me will be all the Zen temples in Kyoto. I have long admired Zen thought and art, and I am very interested in learning your thoughts on Zen. In the mean time, I'll wander through your Zen stuff. (Zen in Chinese is "Chan3")

Miao, you are my kind of guy. I love a detailed explanation that leads me to want to ask more questions!

Having done nearly 10 years of karate wado-ryu, I have had a decent immersion in Japanese culture. But I always had a private sentiment that the Chinese had it first, and much as I admire the Japanese uncluttered aesthetic, I have a softer spot for the rococo stylization of the very old Chinese stuff.

Meanwhile I need to consider your responses above further,before I ask again.