h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You can't have it both ways.If there was no evil.....how would you define good?
You defined volcanos and floods as being evil.I disagree,these are events of renewal.
Natural 'disasters' are natures way of re-creating life.It is unfortunate, if lives(human or otherwise)
are eliminated in the process,not evil.

I agree with Lee. A volcano isn't evil, they just have unfortunate effects on humans that get near them. If a volcano had a concience, and PURPOSEFULLY killed people, then it would be evil. As they are, they're just processes.
You can drown in water, but you don't call that evil. Do you?

I'm with lee lee, particularly on good and evil, see my post in the omnipotence thread. Great minds think alike

Agreed. Most natural disasters are side effects of positive things. If you don't have earthquakes, you don't get mountains to climb, or pleasant green valley shelters to live in.

There are very few ways to design a better world without re-writing the laws of physics.

You don't call the knife evil, you call the guy holding the knife evil.

The only evils I can't explain away are birth defects and cancer.

I think we need to make a distinction here between good versus bad and good versus evil. Birth defects and cancer are bad but not, IMHO, evil per se. Evil in my book tends to imply some malevolent intent, although I aknowledge that I am opening myself up to the argument about evil actions from good intentions but hey, nothing's perfect.

But if there is a God, and if he goes around hitting people with cancer sticks, then isn't that malevolent intent?

For the record, cancer is linked to the mechanism tht repairs cells, so it too is a side-effect of a more useful thingy. And if we stopped birth defects, we'd also lose in-born immunities to diseases and other mutations. So I just answered my own question.

Steve Beuchner said once that death and disease are the prices we pay for life. Think about it this way: what worth would the expression "Live life as if every day were your last" have if there were no diseases, accidents, and misfortunes to make it probable?

As for me, i believe the only evil actions are those which treat people as less than human beings.

Well put,Taco.

As Doctor Who once said, "Without death, there can be no progress."

If you believe the idea that God created us for eternity, then even major ills like cancer become mere inconveniences. Three or four days after experiencing extreme pain you can no longer remember quite what it was like: once we experience eternity we will no longer remember pain or grief in the way we dread them on earth.

True evil is that which damages or attempts to destroy our immortal souls, denying us that solace and triumph over earthly pains which has been promised to us.

I think most people would agree that cancer is AN evil in the world. It itself is not evil since, as discussed before, evil implies intent. As far as a previous comment that God hits us with a cancer stick, my belief is that God created us, gave us wills (possibly not a good idea, since we're all majorly ^&%!!@#-d up), gave us brains and what should be common sense, innate skills and instincts for survival, and then let us each decide our own path. Cancer is USUALLY a side effect of something else, although not always. I am NOT saying that living a God-filled life will protect us from all ills. I, myself have had a kidney transplant (not that I'm God-filled, but I try), and my mother died of cancer. I would dearly love to blame God for her death, but that's like blaming Wittenberg for people like John Hinkley.
Cancer may also be called a "mere inconvenience" for people who are going through it (compared to what they experience in the afterlife), but I think that those of us left behind are the ones who feel its effects more profoundly. My mother was in pain for a few months, but I've been in pain since her death 8 years ago. Oh and, by the way, experincing extreme pain (emotional or physical) does continue even if you get used to it. It stays extremely painful, it just becomes something you have to deal with.
Considering this forum refers to "Evil and the Christian God", what really does God have to do with evil? One of the first responses was dead on...without the presence of God, would we even be able to acknowledge evil? Is there such a thing as darkness if you have never experienced light? If a tree falls in the forest...
Enough sermonizing. I'm done.

What I meant was that that which denies god or defies him may be evil, but that which is mindless is just bad, however bad that seems. If we are to truly know God then we must be given the ability to deny him: if we do not see an alternative then we are without true faith.

I agree that pain can be terrible, and does carry on - in life. I miss my son every day, and it is very hard to bear sometimes. But I have learned to deal with it, as you have, and one thing which helps me is knowing that he is beyond pain now; also that I will see him again some time. When that happens the pain I now feel will be transformed into a greater love and joy.

Great response. Exactly.

"I'm with lee lee, particularly on good and evil, see my post in the omnipotence thread. Great minds think alike."

'Great minds,' as a rule, are not self-appointed.

Actually, they usually are.

Newton, in particular, was famous for his self-conciet. Rockefeller was... wow. It is only quite recentlly that the image of an Einsteinian absent-minded genius has sprung up.

Although this has provoked an interesting discussion I feel it is necessary to explain why I said that natural events are 'evil'. The label evil is applied in this way thoroughout the philosophy of religion and I was refering to it within that context.

Although Biblically speaking, 'evil' natural disasters were generally inflicted upon God's enemies. Floods, locusts, etc.

Are these still 'evil' then? Or is it a matter of perspective? From a cynical point of view, diseases are 'good' from the perspective of pharmaceutical companies, or they'd be out of business. The holy wars were considered, at the time, pretty 'good' (Hence the word 'holy' in their title), yet the consequences even today are pretty horrific.

Just a thought. And now I'll go and get myself killed on the next zebra crossing

> "If you don't have earthquakes, you don't get mountains to climb"

I'm sure any omnipotent God could create a mountain without having to resort to such clumsy things as Earthquakes....

And hey! He could stop with the construction work while there are people living on the place, dangit!

It seems that evil here is being defined as doing harmful things with intent. Let's take that a bit further through the dogma, shall we...

God is omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect in every way.
God created everything on earth.
God therefore created cancer, AIDS, syphillis, and every other nasty, horrible thing there is.
Children often die young, through horrible diseases or accidents, with the stain of original sin still on their persons, at which time they proceed to hell.

I'm only scratching the surface here, but if God did all of this, and did so with intent, then he is evil, and I'll have nothing to do with him, thank you very much. And if you accept the dogma, there is no other way it could be than through malicious intent.

Are we sensing bitterness?

Yes, I think we are.

And the "God is Evil" arguement would carry a lot more weight if the number one killer of people wasn't people. All the incurable diseases in the world don't add up to the car wrecks, heart attacks, and out and out murders.

People are obviously evil, so perhaps I should stop beleiving in people.

Since when have people been defined as omnibenovolent, exactly? Nice one-liner, lousy logic.