h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've decided to take a break from the whole interweb thingy for a while. What started out as a bit of fun has turned into something else entirely.

My main problem is with Muslims. The more I read about their religion, the angrier I get and it's starting to affect me personally. When I read some of my more recent posts on the subject, I can hardly believe it is me speaking. I don't recognise the balanced, down to earth, humorous guy that I know I am.

I think the main reason for this is, the more I learn about Islam, the more I need to know. It's like a sick fascination. But you can't immerse yourself so totally in such a perverse ideology without being tainted yourself.

So I'm going to take a break. I still need to check my e-mail daily, so I'll probably look in on HooToo occasionally, but I'm not going to join in until I get my head straight.

To anyone I've offended, at this moment I can't say sorry because I believe all I've said. Maybe once I've got some perspective.

take your time, the place will stll be here whenever

A breath of fresh air might do us all a bit of good from time to time. Go recharge your batteries, sort things out a bit, and then come back and tell us how it went and what new insights you've gained!
Peace!

Hey my old scottie pal,

Don't be too hard on yourself. A lot of what you say makes sense to a degree. These things need to be aired and debated. I certainly disagree with you sometimes, but that's whats good about discussing stuff. I know what you mean though about getting obsessed. I did a while back about the war in Lebanon. I was actually using it as a distraction from RL worries.

Anyway, love from a Fanny

Ooo do pop back and tell us what its all like 'outside' in the 'real world'.... I've only ever heard of it from disreptable sources before

Hi SWL,

I'm sorry about any negative feelings you may be experiencing. If you'd like to talk to a Muslima about Islam, you can talk to me. I'm not a scholar, by any means, but the best I would be able to do would be to put a cultural context to some of your questions, based on my experience.

Islam is IMO (of course I'm biased) a wonderful religion which, like all religions, needs to sometimes be taken with a giant grain of salt

~Red

Red Supergiant, you sound like a very reasonable person. As you may or may not know, there has been a lengthy conversation going on involving issues of Muslim religious practices, etc., at another thread, which you should be able to find here: F135418?thread=3577992.

I for one would welcome contributions to that discussion from someone such as yourself who has a first-hand knowledge of Islam, which many of those engaged in the conversation, including myself, do not have. Please join us in that discussion if you are so inclined. Thank you.

Hope to see you around here again, SWL. As a person who mainly lives in the real world, I find this place a good source of interesting and different conversation.

Elly

Actually, this is quite fun watching the "Fun Loving Liberals" become more totalitarian, illiberal and self-righteous as time goes on.

True incident from today.

My (Muslim) boss is up for the week, calling on customers both prospective and existing. Lots of hours spent driving and chatting. All week, it's been him bringing up "Did you know that under Islam ...?" stuff. Now, as you can imagine, I'm severely biting my tongue. At the end of the day I need to keep a wage coming in after all. Anyhoo. Today we called on a business. A young Muslim met with us. I introduced who we were, but he interrupted to ask my boss if he was Punjab. For the next 45 minutes, barely a word was spoken in English. I don't mind that if it allows the customer to relax. Except, after four years I've picked up a little Urdu and managed to roughly keep up with the conversation. Basically, the young guy was explaining that his father was a VERY IMPORTANT MAN and that he, the son, would present the proposal to him. If agreeable, a 2nd meeting would be held between his father and my boss. My boss said that any further meetings would involve me as he had to go back to London. The young Muslim then said that no, his father would not deal with khufar. He gave me a look as he said this and it finally sunk in with me who he was. He's from the same family as a guy who was jailed this week for a racist attack. As they had been talking, I had been jotting down notes including the family name which rang a bell when I wrote it down. The filthy look he gave me was the self-same look the murderer had given the tv cameras as he was escorted to the prison van.

I made my excuses and left. When my boss came out he said that he didn't think a deal could be done. I interrupted him to say there was no way we were doing business with him and explained why. He was surprised at how much I had understood and embarassed by it all. He then told me how the conversation had got worse after I left.

Whilst by no means a common occurrence, this type of thing happens now and then. My Sikh and Gambian colleagues tell me that it is even worse for them.

And idiots witter on here that it is impossible for a minority to be racist

Hi...I saw this and was interested in your story.

There is going to be racism regardless of your ethnicity and religion, and regardless the minority group. The recent case with the white boy who was murdered horrendously because he was white is an example of this.

But there is also a wide majority of people who aren't racist. For instance - you have a Muslim boss who seems ok. I have numerous Muslim friends who are not racist in any shape or form. In fact I had one muslim friend who did not freak out with the idea of homosexual people in his department, when homosexuality is banned in his country.

There are some extreme bits in Islam - but I might add that there are some extreme views in Christianity (in the past atleast). This doesn't mean that every Muslim person you will ever meet is Racist, just like every white person is racist.

Hi Kitush,

I would say that Muslims are no more or less racist than whites, blacks or anyone else and I don't come across a lot of racism in my work. I would say that I come across far, far more religious Muslims than religious Christians though.

IMHO, racism is actually a sign of insecurity. As you can probably tell, I'm Scots and I get very annoyed at some of my countrymen who seem to think being Scottish means being anti-English. Similarly, those who attack Asians for their skin colour are possibly suffering from a lack of identity themselves.

Yes, there are extreme parts of Christianity as well as Islam but most Christians do not see a return to fundamentalism as a way forward. Neither do most Muslims I suspect, but a significant proportion do.

BTW, time spent with my boss can be quite trying. For instance, he told me that there is a teacher at his daughter's school who has what he termed "seriously dodgy" views, ("think Choudary", he said). However, he feels sure that he doesn't allow it to interfere with his teaching. I queried him on this and it seems the teacher's views are very well-known, but he's a good teacher so none of the parents are too concerned. Now compare that with if it was discovered a teacher was a BNP supporter - he would be hounded out even if he was the best teacher on earth! This is where I think the moderate majority seriously do not understand the sensitivity of the situation. Britain historically rejects extremism of any hue but many Muslims seem to think that dismissing Muslim extremists as blowhards is sufficient.

One of my biggest issues is the unfairness in defining racism. A lot of people seem to believe that racism equates to whites having negative views about asians, and blacks which I think is rubbish. Truth of the matter is that there is racism on both sides. I've seen it and I've experienced it and that's why it infuriates me about the mis representation. I think it's dangerous, and I think that its leading to a rift building between people.

In my experience I've had more Christians being extreme in some shape or form than Muslims. The irony is that those muslims who I've met have been far more relaxed about things than Christians, and I'm not sure whether this is to do with the type of people I know or just that they're more wordly in realising how things work.

The interesting thing is the way that the US is moving forward. In the US there is becoming an increasing view that creationsim is true in comparison to evolution. The war on Terror seems to be a very Christian thing. It's worrying because although the UK is not following this pattern, it could influence UK christians in the future, but maybe that's something that will never happen (and I hope it doesn't).

The teacher at your boss' school should be reported. And to be honest I am surprised he hasn't been already - I assume that the school is maybe predominantly Muslim which could be why as I cannot think of any other reason why he hasn't been hounded out. The irony is this - If you happen to be Muslim and have extreme views and you work/travel in a predominantly non-Muslim (I won't say white as Muslims can be white) area, then you will be watched with paranoia. I know this as I've seen this happen numerous times. I give you the example of the Muslim doctor who was on the plane, and got kicked out because the drunken guy on the plane thought he looked 'dodgy'. Compare that to if a guy was sittign on the plane giving extreme views against Muslims - he wouldn't be asked to leave the plane.

So its very subjective. The result of Muslims being looked at with paranoia is that the Muslim community has become tighter, which is ironically not what is needed.

>The interesting thing is the way that the US is moving forward. In the US there is becoming an increasing view that creationsim is true in comparison to evolution.<

I'd just quibble a tiny bit with your wording here and say "the interesting thing is the way that the US is moving *backward*." Yes, religious fundamentalism, of all stripes, is not a pretty thing to see, imo. I'm optimistic that the upswing in popularity of creationism is only a temporary aberration and that sanity will prevail over the long run.

Ah sorry - I don't know much about the workings in the US - just what I've heard so I'm sorry!

Yes I agree with you JCNSmith. I would compare it to the McArthyism period.

Seriously I have no real concerns that the vast majority of US citizens are rationally intelligent people that don't really want an extremist agenda defining their society. These cul de sacs of extremism can arise in any society, but ultimately they do not last because human beings are just way to complex to be defined by simplistic extremism.

>Ah sorry - I don't know much about the workings in the US - just what I've heard so I'm sorry!<

No need to be sorry! You didn't say anything wrong or offensive. I was just making a joke about how it seems the US is going backward rather than forward with regard to the creationism issue.

Even though I live in the US, I still often don't understand its workings either, so don't feel bad.

In the US, a Muslim at last stood up and unequivocally criticised Bin Laden and the extremists. Here is a copy of the letter he wrote:

"Message of Islam is not jihad, fatwahs

By Jamal Miftah.

I moved to the United States in March 2003, with my four kids and wife from Pakistan bordering Afghanistan. There was a call by a local jihadi organization to fight the coalition forces in Afghanistan. One of my dearest friends, Mirza Kohistani, fell prey to that call and joined the group, despite my advice and that of his wife to him.

All the leaders of that organization returned safely after the fall of the Taliban empire, but they left behind the body of my friend and hundreds of other innocent people like him.

I am obliged to respond to Ayman al-Zawahri's recent video message, portraying himself as champion of Islam and others as liars.

My message to Ayman al-Zawahri and Muslims of the world: "Islam" means submission and is derived from a word meaning "peace." Islam, Christianity and Judaism have the same origin, the Prophet Abraham. The prophet of Islam has said that God has no mercy on someone who does not have mercy for others.

I ask that al-Zawahri look at his deeds and those of his master, Osama bin Laden, and other so-called Islamic jihadists.

Because of lack of knowledge of Islam, Muslim youth are misguided into believing by the so-called champions of the cause of Islam that the current spate of killings and barbarism, which has no equal in the recent civilized history, is jihad in the name of Islam. They are incited, in the name of Islam, to commit heinous crimes not pardonable by any religion and strictly forbidden in Islam.

Cowards like al-Zawahri and bin Laden are inciting the ignorant and innocent youths to commit suicide bombings to kill innocent civilians including children, women and the elderly, while they hide in spider holes and caves. They never send their own sons and daughters, born out of half a dozen of their wives, to get killed in the name of Islam. They are themselves hypo crites, cowards, thugs and liars. For 12 years they misappropriated aid received from the U.S. and the West to fight Russia. Now they are ensuring smooth flow of petro dollars from Arab countries in the name of jihad against the West.

Even mosques and Islamic institutions in the U.S. and around the world have become tools in their hands and are used for collecting funds for their criminal acts. Half of the funds collected go into the pockets of their local agents and the rest are sent to these thugs.

They are the reason for branding the peaceful religion of Islam as terrorism. The result, therefore, is in the form of Danish cartoons and remarks/reference by the Pope.

I appeal to the Muslim youth in particular and Muslims of the world in general to rise up and start jihad against the killers of humanity and help the civilized world to bring these culprits to justice and prove that Islam is not a religion of hatred and aggression.

I appeal to the Muslim clerics around the world that, rather than issuing empty fatwas condemning suicide bombing, they should issue a fatwa for the death of such scoundrels and barbarians who have taken more than 4,267 lives of innocent people in the name of Islam and have carried out more than 24 terrorist attacks on civilian installations throughout the world. This does not include the chilling number of deaths because of such activities in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is well over 250,000.

I appeal to al-Zawahri and his band of thugs to hand themselves over to justice and stop spreading evil and killing innocent humans around the world in the name of Islam. Their time is limited and Muslims of the world will soon rise against them to apprehend them and bring them to justice."




Surely no-one could disagree with his sentiments?

Er, well actually, yes.

The letter caused only recriminations at his mosque, the Islamic Center at Tulsa.

He was threatened by several members. He protested, and then was told by the management of the mosque that he cannot return until he has apologized.

Miftah was told by members of the congregation that he should never have criticized Islam in front of non-Muslims